New Size Scale Discussion

The problem is that people want to destroy any fantasy the world has and force it to follow THEIR specific rules on physics.

And when you slack in that department too much, others want to make it too fantasy-like and make it follow ANOTHER specific rule of physics.

I think what we need is a universally agreed upon set of laws binding Felarya to the Fantasy state it's in.

As a note: Arguing "People want to destroy the world to make it what they want" isn't a good argument. Mainly because, without there being an obvious example in the thread the person saying that wanting some factor they like changed, it pretty much can hold true to everyone in the thread at once (including the one saying it). Some basic things said in the thread that hold so far:

1) There's no use to the Breasts, besides being oogled. Except for a few Giant Predators, which feed their young (Fairies, for example, and at least one type of Dridder), this is pretty much true. However, do keep in mind that objects merely there for oogling are present in nature (the "appendix" example is somewhat poor because in that case you're saying somewhere down the line they were using the breasts to feed young, which pretty much says at one point all hybrid-Predators were once Human or Elf). Not quite sure the proper term for it, but it does hold that if big breasts are more successful in attracting mates or surviving in the wilds (the Felaryan aura of "Bewbies, hur hur" affecting most demi-humans), they would remain prevalent even if that's all they did.

2) Predators, with their current size on the Wiki (the seventies-range foot height), do not work with swallowing humans whole. Approximately, at that height, they'd be akin to us eating something six inches in size whole. While it might be possible if it were not-moving, wrapped, thin enough, you had a proper reflex, and so on, otherwise it's pretty much left for unhinging-jaw Predators. As such, there does need to be a size increase. The 120-range makes the Prey 3.6", which is still a bit large (now you're imagining someone eating a hardboiled egg whole, no chew), but also a little more believable (since we aren't as round as a chicken egg). Scaling might need to increase even further, but the point stands that common "OM NOM YOU CAN SLEEP ON MY TONGUE" behavior doesn't work with a 72' tall Giant (well, 72' tall if their groin drags the ground: If they keep their groin at approximately waist-height, then 70-ish feet works as then you're getting a height that would approximate 163 feet if it had legs, and if knee height 95, which is short but much less so).

3) Square-Cube law holds to some degree on Felarya, but not entirely.

rcs619 wrote:

Its like how Dryads have breasts and vaginas even though they never use them.

This is hardly the first time we've discussed the purpose of dryad boobs. See this thread, specifically:

Oldman40k2003 (from 2008) wrote:

It makes sense to me that creatures with boobs would, where possible, nurse their young. Being born from an egg does not prevent being nursed (see: platypus), and it is fairly advantageous for a species to nurse their young, as it allows a "helpless baby" to be born and then "grow up" quickly, rather than having to be born as a fully functional adult.

Dryads present us with an interesting problem, considering their method of reproduction doesn't seem compatible with nursing. We know that Dryads often become the "center" of a group, with other creatures working for them. Perhaps they need to nurse a child of their group from time to time? Dryads have a great deal of control over their biochemistry, so it also might be useful to have boobs simply as a means to produce a particular fluid quickly and store a large amount of it for later use.

Karbo wrote:

Another, minor one, is some confusion about naga height. For example if the wiki says that Crisis is 70, that means she is actualy much taller in term of human measurement, as the distance between her wais and the ground is much shorter than if she had legs. And to make things harder it can also widely fluctuate.

I think it would be very helpful to explicitly mention some of the distances involved, to help separate a naga's "scale" vs how far above the ground the top of their head is. Specifically, it might be very useful to mention the distance from the naga's shoulder to their waist, and the distance from their waist to the ground. This can be used to separate their "scale" from their "slouch".
For example, two nagas with "height above ground" of 70 feet could be very differently "scaled" if one has a shoulder to waist height of 30 feet, and the other has a shoulder to waist height of 60 feet.

It might also be a good time to lock down any other measurement that might be confusing. I know it might seem to be excessive, but in my experience (as a programmer, granted, where "data flexibility" is more problematic than when drawing), it rarely hurts to over define something.

Malahite wrote:

2) Predators, with their current size on the Wiki (the seventies-range foot height), do not work with swallowing humans whole. Approximately, at that height, they'd be akin to us eating something six inches in size whole. While it might be possible if it were not-moving, wrapped, thin enough, you had a proper reflex, and so on, otherwise it's pretty much left for unhinging-jaw Predators. As such, there does need to be a size increase. The 120-range makes the Prey 3.6", which is still a bit large (now you're imagining someone eating a hardboiled egg whole, no chew), but also a little more believable (since we aren't as round as a chicken egg). Scaling might need to increase even further, but the point stands that common "OM NOM YOU CAN SLEEP ON MY TONGUE" behavior doesn't work with a 72' tall Giant (well, 72' tall if their groin drags the ground: If they keep their groin at approximately waist-height, then 70-ish feet works as then you're getting a height that would approximate 163 feet if it had legs, and if knee height 95, which is short but much less so).

What do we do about small creatures like Aurora, the Lamina Harpies and the Meiramines? Aurora can get away with this since she's a snake, but the Lamina Harpies doesn't get the luxury of a snake's stretchy throat. Meiramines do, but it still need to fit in their mouth first. Could those simply live on a different diet?

Sean Okotami wrote:

What do we do about small creatures like Aurora, the Lamina Harpies and the Meiramines? Aurora can get away with this since she's a snake, but the Lamina Harpies doesn't get the luxury of a snake's stretchy throat. Meiramines do, but it still need to fit in their mouth first. Could those simply live on a different diet?

Or they could use hard vore like a Kensha would.

Possibly, but I don't think a lot of people here would like to see that pictured.

Hard vore was all I wrote about before I stumbled into Felarya. I could never think of a way to make soft vore work in any of my stories prior.

Sean Okotami wrote:

What do we do about small creatures like Aurora, the Lamina Harpies and the Meiramines? Aurora can get away with this since she's a snake, but the Lamina Harpies doesn't get the luxury of a snake's stretchy throat. Meiramines do, but it still need to fit in their mouth first. Could those simply live on a different diet?

It's iffy. On one hand, they're approximately the proper size to eat a human and get something worthwhile from it (not a day's meal, but at least a standard meal from the bargain - especially if eating multiple). On the other, a human would approximately be about a ruler's length to them (to a human, it'd be akin to a 10.8" object), so them "gobbling up" people whole is already a bit of a feat (since that's larger than most hotdogs / franks / sausages, and they're eating it in one go). They also have another fruit they can eat, that in some cases even replaces the human portion of the diet (again, recall that they're one of the few Predators small enough to consider a typical human a meal and not a Twinkie), so the need to eat humans whole isn't exactly a requisite for their species.

Normally, I'd suggest they put their notably sharp claws to good use, and just shred a person up: Lamina Harpy descends on someone, uses their claw-storm to dice them into a chunky salsa, and enjoys. However, as you said, that doesn't exactly work with most people (I wouldn't mind this at all, besides the difficulties in eating said chunky salsa without hands, but a bunch of people on here might not exactly like the idea of a flock of birds descending on something and not fending it off, but tearing it to bloody ribbons).

And really, there's a lot of stuff for Felarya for Giant Predators to eat. The main reason it doesn't look that way is, frankly, there's predominantly three things that gain the focus of creators for Felarya:

1) "Prey". "Prey" is used because, almost invariably, that's all the people are seen as. Maybe "Prey with a Story", but still "Prey". If it's not a Prey Demi-Human for a Giant Predator, it's a typical livestock / farming / hunting animal for said Demi-Humans, and thus isn't much concern to a Giant Predator anyways.
2) Prey-hunting Fauna. Kensha Beasts, Spine Beetles, Giant Chameleons, the works. Technically a bunch of these could probably double as Giant Predator food (ever seen a guy eat a Cicada?), but that's not their main focus, so that application isn't seen as often in stories (instead either being what herds someone to a Giant Predator, or an implied background threat / off-screen menace to show that Felarya's dangerous besides GP's).
3) Giant Predators. And, somewhat obviously here, it'd be a bit odd for these to feed on themselves. Works with a few, such as Dridders, but for most it doesn't make much sense without looking disturbing at best, cannibalistic (even if not the same species') at worst.

Well I get the three parts, which is what I want to integrate in my stories. However, as far as Lamina Harpies go, shredding a human wouldn't be a good idea since you'd get so little parts and it'd be hard to pick them. I'd see it on large animals, where one would tear it to shreds and then swallow pieces of its insides whole. But, for the sake of fetish, they'd need to find a way to eat a human whole. It's kind of the same deal with a species of Dridders I made, the Svila Dridders, which I scaled up from the suggestion. For the sake of fetish, they'd need to be able to swallow a human whole, since these dridders don't have any venom whatsoever.

Why does the fetish need to have entire domination over everything? A small harpy is not going to suddenly stop and go "Holy Cow! I suddenly realize I HAVE to eat this person in one go! This makes no sense logically, but its for the sake of fetish, so alright! GARARASGHGGGHHGG *CHOKE*" That's ridiculous. There are plenty of creatures already that swallow their prey whole for your fetish needs. And a small harpy isn't going to follow the logic "Bite everything into chunks except humans. When eating those I must swallow them whole, just incase fetishists are watching. Just incase."

Now, I prefer my soft vore over my hard vore, but I also prefer a varied and realistic world. Big creatures will swallow their prey whole. Smaller ones will probably bite it into chunks, unless they have a specific biological reason not to.

The whole dicing into chunks thing would probably work best with a predator on quite the smaller scale. For those bigger, but still too small to swallow something whole, it would probably just be biting and tearing off pieces.

Well, we do have an option to pick and choose our heights now, but you have to remember the original goal for the sizes of these large preds was so that they could swallow the smaller guys whole. That and all the stories out there would not only have to be edited, but re-written because if we changed it that way. There are also those stories where height really does play an important aspect in the relationship between two characters. It's not so much about the fetish aspect of it, as we are recognizing the original goal/purpose in mind.

Also, if we leave some giant preds at a smaller height we may have to reconfigure the height of everything else just so the proper proportions could be made. Though we may have to do that already >.<

I think it would be far too inconvenient to leave some predators at 70-100ft.

forgive me if I phrased anything weird, it's late. so with that, im going to bed... *finds somewhere safe to sleep*

Actually there is a logical explanation why preds are attempting to swallow their prey whole. Can't really tell anything about it though, that would be a huuge spoiler for things to come ^^;
As for breasts, well honnestly I wouldn't go really out of my way to explain this one. I mean explaining thing is good , it's what give a solid foundation for a world,
but explaining too much may look as trying to find excuses..

Anyway I worked a bit on that size chart. I'll post it tonight with colors and so :



So there we are. We can see that most pred break the 100 feet indeed. In that configuration, Aurora become the old size of Crisis ^_^ ( confirmed by Kiki )

Karbo wrote:

Actually there is a logical explanation why preds are attempting to swallow their prey whole. Can't really tell anything about it though, that would be a huuge spoiler for things to come ^^;

You're a horrible tease sometimes Karbo. Gah, the suspense is intense.

Anyway, good job on the size chart. Belletia and Vivian at the back is a nice touch, however I would have liked to see Vivian standing at her full height. It's also interesting to see Anko's whole body finally.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

I would have liked to see Vivian standing at her full height

I would have liked too but she wasn't feeling cooperative XP

Heh.
Vivian doesn't cooperate with you, You cooperate with Vivian.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Heh.
Vivian doesn't cooperate with you, You cooperate with Vivian.

Whether you want to or not.

But you always want to cooperate with Vivian, even when you don't, you do.

I can't see the numbers on the chart.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I can't see the numbers on the chart.

Wait tonight for the complete version.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I can't see the numbers on the chart.

You don't really need to see the numbers. Just look at the human. He's 6ft tall, so the next dark line would be 10ft, and the larger lines on the chart go up in incriments of 10ft. Nikita is 40ft, Aurora is 70ft, Crisis is 100ft, etc.

The end of that chart is so full of YES! Thank you Karbo!

....


Oh, I also found it informative.

OH WOW!

That really brings things into perspective. You are awesome Karbo.

Definitely gonna get alot of use out of that chart.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Why does the fetish need to have entire domination over everything? A small harpy is not going to suddenly stop and go "Holy Cow! I suddenly realize I HAVE to eat this person in one go! This makes no sense logically, but its for the sake of fetish, so alright! GARARASGHGGGHHGG *CHOKE*" That's ridiculous. There are plenty of creatures already that swallow their prey whole for your fetish needs. And a small harpy isn't going to follow the logic "Bite everything into chunks except humans. When eating those I must swallow them whole, just incase fetishists are watching. Just incase."

Now, I prefer my soft vore over my hard vore, but I also prefer a varied and realistic world. Big creatures will swallow their prey whole. Smaller ones will probably bite it into chunks, unless they have a specific biological reason not to.

The whole dicing into chunks thing would probably work best with a predator on quite the smaller scale. For those bigger, but still too small to swallow something whole, it would probably just be biting and tearing off pieces.

Yes, take my statement completely the wrong way just for the sake of disagreeing. That's really all you're good for. I never, EVER said that fetish needed to have an entire domination over everything, just an added bonus. If possible to make such a thing, go for it. If not, let's try something else. I am now convinced that you only disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Why does the fetish need to have entire domination over everything? A small harpy is not going to suddenly stop and go "Holy Cow! I suddenly realize I HAVE to eat this person in one go! This makes no sense logically, but its for the sake of fetish, so alright! GARARASGHGGGHHGG *CHOKE*" That's ridiculous. There are plenty of creatures already that swallow their prey whole for your fetish needs. And a small harpy isn't going to follow the logic "Bite everything into chunks except humans. When eating those I must swallow them whole, just incase fetishists are watching. Just incase."

Now, I prefer my soft vore over my hard vore, but I also prefer a varied and realistic world. Big creatures will swallow their prey whole. Smaller ones will probably bite it into chunks, unless they have a specific biological reason not to.

The whole dicing into chunks thing would probably work best with a predator on quite the smaller scale. For those bigger, but still too small to swallow something whole, it would probably just be biting and tearing off pieces.

Yes, take my statement completely the wrong way just for the sake of disagreeing. That's really all you're good for. I never, EVER said that fetish needed to have an entire domination over everything, just an added bonus. If possible to make such a thing, go for it. If not, let's try something else. I am now convinced that you only disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

TO QUOTE:

"But, for the sake of fetish, they'd need to find a way to eat a human whole."

"For the sake of fetish, they'd need to be able to swallow a human whole, since these dridders don't have any venom whatsoever."

I'm not sure what other way I'm supposed to take this. If I see something ridiculous, I disagree.

I apologize for making my opinions on anything vocal. It is simply coincidence that many of the ridiculous statements I rail against come from you, I'm sure.

Even if you take it that way, shredding a human to pieces would be impractical since the pieces would be minuscle. I even stated that those could live off of a different diet. Maybe I wasn't thinking, but if we could integrate humans in their diet and stick to the theme of how preds eat humans, then it would need a way to do it. If not, let's forget about it.