How did Giant Elves come to be?

rcs619 wrote:

Giant Elves were originally artificially created, but in the 1000's of years since, they have been reproducing enough to become a self-sustaining giant race, much like Nagas, Mermaids, etc.

Err i'm not really sure where this comes from but this is definitely not true... It's more an assumption than anything really ^^;

Karbo wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

Giant Elves were originally artificially created, but in the 1000's of years since, they have been reproducing enough to become a self-sustaining giant race, much like Nagas, Mermaids, etc.

Err i'm not really sure where this comes from but this is definitely not true... It's more an assumption than anything really ^^;

It comes from Jeatte's proposed timeline, which is, quite frankly, the best long-term timeline anyone has proposed so far.

Elves, at the peak of their empire 1000's of years ago, modified some of their kind to be giant, to act as guardians for their empire.

It really makes sense when you think about it. Humans, Nekos and Inu are all only human-sized, why should Elves be any different? This explains why we even have giant Elves. They're all descendents of those ancient, modified Elves, and have gradually become a self-sustaining species.

Indeed, the origin of giant elves was in JT's chronology and Karbo didn't say anything about it when he commented on it, so people assumed that it was ok.

Quote :

It comes from Jeatte's proposed timeline, which is, quite frankly, the best long-term timeline anyone has proposed so far.

Huh? That was mentioned in his timeline? I didn't even see that.

...That sounds totally rediculous btw.

Karbo wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

Giant Elves were originally artificially created, but in the 1000's of years since, they have been reproducing enough to become a self-sustaining giant race, much like Nagas, Mermaids, etc.

Err i'm not really sure where this comes from but this is definitely not true... It's more an assumption than anything really ^^;

Wait, so why are there giant elves?

And Bagel, I fail to see what is so ridiculous about the concept.

How would you find the resources, and manpower, and magic ability to do that? The kind of power that it would take to artificially create one elf, why not create an army of them? Yeah that wont call the guardians. Oh yeah, well the elves managed to defeat every other giant race out there, stretching their empire all across the current continent.

See as much as I like your timeline, I find those proposals to be really far-fetched. Of course the guardians wont come and blow up just one city because it's powerful, but they cant risk an entire empire. So creating an army of giant elves is definitely out of the question.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

How would you find the resources, and manpower, and magic ability to do that? The kind of power that it would take to artificially create one elf, why not create an army of them? Yeah that wont call the guardians. Oh yeah, well the elves managed to defeat every other giant race out there, stretching their empire all across the current continent.

See as much as I like your timeline, I find those proposals to be really far-fetched. Of course the guardians wont come and blow up just one city because it's powerful, but they cant risk an entire empire. So creating an army of giant elves is definitely out of the question.

The Dridder Empire existed for centuries and it was based around giant-sized dridders. The Guardians didn't crush it until Sineria directly challenged and threatened them with her power.

Also, the point of the giant elves is that you can make a few and then they would breed. They were never a large part of the Empire.

As well, the Elves did not stretch their Empire "all across the current continent." They constructed bastions of civilization across it, from about the Lake of Illusions to the Oloonde Lakeland. No Empire has ever truly conquered the wilderness of Felarya. But there have been those that extended their power in focused areas across it.

The Guardians don't blow civilization up when they reach a certain predetermined strength. They intervene if a civilization develops something that could threaten them, or the stability of the world as a whole. Creating giant elves as protectors of their smaller brethren is not a threat of power.

In the real world, Empires rapidly expand, often from seemingly unimportant areas. Considering the size, it is not unrealistic that the Elves reached the, relatively restricted level of control they did.

Because that requires a lot of power and technology, making a sentient creature from scratch takes so much more technology than you think. At our level of technology, people have a hard time farming organs. Being able to create a giant sapient race in Felarya I think would be dangerous enough for the guardians to react.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

You don't think a united continental empire could take down a guardian? Also, what about that "creating giant elves" part. You don't think that's rediculous either?

No. A united continental (which its not, just a part of a continent) empire could not take down a guardian. Conventional weapons don't even count against guardians. You would need specific and incredibly potent magic.

And this is a world of giant half monster women. I fail to see what is "rediculous" about using magic to make a handful of humanoids a different size.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

Because that requires a lot of power and technology, making a sentient creature from scratch takes so much more technology than you think. At our level of technology, people have a hard time farming organs. Being able to create a giant sapient race in Felarya I think would be dangerous enough for the guardians to react.

They didn't create them from scratch Bael. They just scaled up Elves that already existed. Probably military people, since the giant Elves were meant to be their protectors.

Its an interesting mechanic. Every successful human-sized empire/civilization needs some kind of gimmick to survive. The Elves would have had their giant protectors. The Ur-Sagolians had their powerful magi-tech, like those orb things that shoot out lightning to drive off giant predators. The Negavians have the Isolon Eye and lots of cannons. The Chiotians have the protective barrier of kelp in the bay their city is built on, and their diplomatic relations with the local predators.

Having giant Elves be made this way wouldn't present a problem with the current canon, since the Elven Empire existed 1000's of years ago, and any of their technology would not only be lost, but has probably decayed and fallen into such a level of disrepair that it is no longer usable at all, even if you did find some of it. Look how run-down Ur-Sagol is. Now imagine a civilization that collapsed even further in the past.

So then they make them grow bigger? If you're talking about magic, that means being able to identify and understand fairy growth/shrinking magic and scaling it up by a lot. That sort of thing is on the "understanding of Felarya's very nature" level that got the Sagolians destroyed.

You don't just grow an elf to 150 feet tall.

rcs619 wrote:

Archmage_Bael wrote:

Because that requires a lot of power and technology, making a sentient creature from scratch takes so much more technology than you think. At our level of technology, people have a hard time farming organs. Being able to create a giant sapient race in Felarya I think would be dangerous enough for the guardians to react.

They didn't create them from scratch Bael. They just scaled up Elves that already existed. Probably military people, since the giant Elves were meant to be their protectors.

Its an interesting mechanic. Every successful human-sized empire/civilization needs some kind of gimmick to survive. The Elves would have had their giant protectors. The Ur-Sagolians had their powerful magi-tech, like those orb things that shoot out lightning to drive off giant predators. The Negavians have the Isolon Eye and lots of cannons. The Chiotians have the protective barrier of kelp in the bay their city is built on, and their diplomatic relations with the local predators.

Having giant Elves be made this way wouldn't present a problem with the current canon, since the Elven Empire existed 1000's of years ago, and any of their technology would not only be lost, but has probably decayed and fallen into such a level of disrepair that it is no longer usable at all, even if you did find some of it. Look how run-down Ur-Sagol is. Now imagine a civilization that collapsed even further in the past.

Also, realize that the Elven Empire used lots of their "magic technology" with biological and natural bases. Aside from a few stoneworked religious structures, much of the Empire's tree-based creations would have decayed quite quickly.

Having giant Elves be magical creations explain how the Elven Empire survived and also explain the discrepancy of there being giant elves.

The Elven Empire explains the prevalence of Elvish customs and even ruins today (see the Milkadis temple). It also explains how and why two empires, the dridders and Sagolians, arose near the same time in the jungle.

As well, Fairy Magic is a bad comparison. Fairies can constantly shift size from tiny to massive. That is different than a single, powerful spell used to make a single elf shift in size. I'm not saying it's an easy thing (else all elves would try to be giant). But it's not an impossible thing.

The only way I can think they did it is if they used a shit ton of mages just to scale maybe one or two elves to giant size, and even then, probably needed some magic amplifier to ensure the mages were powerful enough to stabilize the spell.

Just to clarify, I talked to Karbo about fairy magic, and it is possible that a human mage can learn how to shrink something the same way a fairy could. The big difference is that the human's spell would be considerable weaker than the fairy. By that, I can only assume it has a shorter duration, takes longer to cast, takes longer to finish, is more demanding to the caster, has tighter limitations when it comes to magic resistance and default size, or a combination of such.

Sean Okotami wrote:

The only way I can think they did it is if they used a shit ton of mages just to scale maybe one or two elves to giant size, and even then, probably needed some magic amplifier to ensure the mages were powerful enough to stabilize the spell.

Just to clarify, I talked to Karbo about fairy magic, and it is possible that a human mage can learn how to shrink something the same way a fairy could. The big difference is that the human's spell would be considerable weaker than the fairy. By that, I can only assume it last much longer, takes longer to cast, takes longer to finish, is more demanding to cast, has tighter limitations when it comes to magic resistance and default size, or a combination of such.

That is quite possible.

Jeatte never said it was a fast process, or easy. Given the immortality factor of Felarya, its entirely possible that they slowly increased the number of giant Elves, a few at a time, over many, many years. It was probably a high honor to be chosen, and they probably only picked the best of the candidates.

rcs619 wrote:

It comes from Jeatte's proposed timeline, which is, quite frankly, the best long-term timeline anyone has proposed so far.

Elves, at the peak of their empire 1000's of years ago, modified some of their kind to be giant, to act as guardians for their empire.

It really makes sense when you think about it. Humans, Nekos and Inu are all only human-sized, why should Elves be any different? This explains why we even have giant Elves. They're all descendents of those ancient, modified Elves, and have gradually become a self-sustaining species.

Well the idea might be interesting and cool indeed but regardless the problem is to make it seems it is the answer which it is not.. it's just an assumption at this point.

Karbo wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

It comes from Jeatte's proposed timeline, which is, quite frankly, the best long-term timeline anyone has proposed so far.

Elves, at the peak of their empire 1000's of years ago, modified some of their kind to be giant, to act as guardians for their empire.

It really makes sense when you think about it. Humans, Nekos and Inu are all only human-sized, why should Elves be any different? This explains why we even have giant Elves. They're all descendents of those ancient, modified Elves, and have gradually become a self-sustaining species.

Well the idea might be interesting and cool indeed but regardless the problem is to make it seems it is the answer which it is not.. it's just an assumption at this point.

A good assumption though, that explains some things and fits in fairly well with the rest of the canon.

Karbo wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

It comes from Jeatte's proposed timeline, which is, quite frankly, the best long-term timeline anyone has proposed so far.

Elves, at the peak of their empire 1000's of years ago, modified some of their kind to be giant, to act as guardians for their empire.

It really makes sense when you think about it. Humans, Nekos and Inu are all only human-sized, why should Elves be any different? This explains why we even have giant Elves. They're all descendents of those ancient, modified Elves, and have gradually become a self-sustaining species.

Well the idea might be interesting and cool indeed but regardless the problem is to make it seems it is the answer which it is not.. it's just an assumption at this point.

Ah, maybe I'm stepping on the toes of a piece of canon I'm not familiar with, but what makes it "not the answer?". Sorry if I missed something.

Karbo simply means that this is merely a theory you, a fan, has created. This does not mean it is the reason, or that it's bad. It doesn't mean that. It means that at it's most basic, it's wild mass guessing.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Karbo simply means that this is merely a theory you, a fan, has created. This does not mean it is the reason, or that it's bad. It doesn't mean that. It means that at it's most basic, it's wild mass guessing.

It is a guess, but not a wild mass one. I tried to be logical in coming up with the theory.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

Karbo simply means that this is merely a theory you, a fan, has created. This does not mean it is the reason, or that it's bad. It doesn't mean that. It means that at it's most basic, it's wild mass guessing.

It is a guess, but not a wild mass one. I tried to be logical in coming up with the theory.

Sure and that's definitely a pertinent one. My point is just that, while this thread is great and bring some interesting and helpful answers to a variety of questions, some of the answers are presented as the actual truth which is not always the case ^^;

Well, that's the thing. None of us are in a position to claim anything as the truth, unless it is explicitly stated in the wiki. Karbo is the only one who can do that. However, that does not mean we cannot help. By proposing good theories, some may become agreed upon by many, and could work to flesh out the world.

well, since were on the topic, and the only one that can bring us the truth is karbo, i just suggest we kindly ask him how giant elves arrived on felarya and just wait for his answer

Krisexy26 wrote:

well, since were on the topic, and the only one that can bring us the truth is karbo, i just suggest we kindly ask him how giant elves arrived on felarya and just wait for his answer

I doubt Karbo knows how every single race arrived on Felarya.

The best solution would be for Karbo and Jeatte to talk this over, and see where and how Jeatte's timeline can fit into Karbo's chronology.

Considering that most of Felarya's history is blank currently, I doubt there will be much of an issue with integrating Jeatte's stuff.

rcs619 wrote:

Krisexy26 wrote:

well, since were on the topic, and the only one that can bring us the truth is karbo, i just suggest we kindly ask him how giant elves arrived on felarya and just wait for his answer

I doubt Karbo knows how every single race arrived on Felarya.

The best solution would be for Karbo and Jeatte to talk this over, and see where and how Jeatte's timeline can fit into Karbo's chronology.

Considering that most of Felarya's history is blank currently, I doubt there will be much of an issue with integrating Jeatte's stuff.

Well, this isn't about the Chronology in general (which I updated to include Karbo older dates). This is about a particular suggested event.

Anyways, on that... firstly, Giant Elves must have come from somewhere other than Felarya, since there are supposed to be no giant forms of humanoid species... well, technically, its actually that humanoid species have only one size. (Not forgetting tomthumbs and neera).

So, they must have arrived somehow. Some options.

1) Artificially created (like the situation I suggested, or something different)
2) Giant Elves developed on Felarya and are actually totally unrelated to human sized Elves but somehow look exactly the same (seems silly)
3) Giant Elves are actually totally unrelated to human sized Elves, because they arrived from outside Felarya.

This also touches on the question of just not Giant Elves but all Elves. Why do elves come in so many flavours (pun not intended)? We don't see "mist-humans". Even Elves that are supposed only in different tribes can be radically different.