Story links on the wiki

There's going to be a slight novelty on the wiki, which Karbo has approved.

On the page of each character, there will be links to quality stories about that character - stories written by the character's creator, and/or stories written by other people but approved by the character's creator.

This will have multiple aims.

First, it will enable people to have a better grasp of the character in question, by seeing him/her developed in stories, by seeing how he/she responds to situations and interacts with other characters, etc... How the character has evolved over time, through stories. This may serve as a model and inspiration for anyone else who might like (with the permission of the owner of the character) to write about that character.

Second, it will mean that henceforth the wiki will provide easier access to quality stories produced by the community. This will have the double benefit of giving people positive, quality models to inspire their own writing, and of giving greater prominence to the community's quality writers and stories.

Hopefully, it will also help bridge the gap between the repository of Felarya's canon on the one hand, and the community's rich stock of quality stories, which have not always been highly prominent in the eyes of the entire community. Subsequently, I would like to see a similar measure implemented not just for the character pages on the wiki, but also for the location pages, so that users can have easy access to examples of quality stories about various regions of Felarya.

All of this will be done under the control of the owners of the characters, and of the writers of the stories. Thus, if you have one or more characters on the wiki, here's what we'd like you to do:

1. Post here to tell us which of your stories (if any) you'd like to see linked from the wiki page about each of your characters. We can link to them all, if there aren't too many. You can also include a very brief summary of what the story is about, or what importance it has for the character.

2. If anyone else has written a story featuring your character in a fairly prominent manner, and if you'd like there to be a link to that story from the wiki page, please contact the writer of that story and ask whether they would accept such a link. Then let us know, by posting here.

Links can be to stories posted here on the forum, or to deviantArt, or potentially even to elsewhere.

I've added a list of links to some of my stories on the wiki page on Milly, as an example.

Going to say I highly approve of this idea. Something like this would give people a better insight on the corresponding character outside the wiki's own summary, gets the better writers out there promoted, and more importantly would show aspiring writers-artists-whatever how to get the characters RIGHT before they set out to use them. If they even care, that is, but that's neither here or there. I'm surprised something like this wasn't proposed before, it's a clever one.

I can't really give Grendel examples because he doesn't have a page yet, but there's this one in where he meets Kaiten, and me and Kaiman agree that this really shows the differences between the two males and is one of the many things that motivate Kaiten into getting strong and independent himself

http://gorger.deviantart.com/art/Felarya-Weak-205568164

Slimetoad wrote:

Going to say I highly approve of this idea. Something like this would give people a better insight on the corresponding character outside the wiki's own summary, gets the better writers out there promoted, and more importantly would show aspiring writers-artists-whatever how to get the characters RIGHT before they set out to use them. If they even care, that is, but that's neither here or there. I'm surprised something like this wasn't proposed before, it's a clever one.

Thank you. And yes, that's exactly the idea, on all those points.

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I can't really give Grendel examples because he doesn't have a page yet, but there's this one in where he meets Kaiten, and me and Kaiman agree that this really shows the differences between the two males and is one of the many things that motivate Kaiten into getting strong and independent himself

http://gorger.deviantart.com/art/Felarya-Weak-205568164

If Kaiman would like it on Kaiten's page, I'll add it right away.

Pretty sure he would like it, but will ask him anyway

Like Slimetoad, I approve of this. I never thought of this idea first, though truly it could have come handy earlier... but better late than never, right? So I'm looking forward to seeing people listing the stories for the available canon characters soon...

I approve this idea, it will save a lot of time researching these characters.

Why not do the same for key locations inside Felarya ?

Erm... pause please? Can you explain to this hairless monkey how this will benefit those writers who's stories wont be receiving mention in the wiki? But from my perspective all I could see is this being nothing more than a form of promotion for a select few writers only and with little if any benefit to those writers who's stories are of good quality yet who's characters don't have an ounce of mention in the wiki or another persons stories who's characters are on the wiki.

Now I get that it helps to understand some of Felarya's more commonly known characters and help stop Fannon's of poor quality or to give those Fannon writers something to base their stories around. Which is great if your going to use another persons characters in a story you should learn all you can about them first then ask to use them. But I fail to see how this benefits others or promotes the other writings based in Felarya when your only giving a select few the spot light. Why would anyone want to read someone else's story about Felarya when they don't receive story mention/ recognition in the wiki? Again I could be reading it wrong and totally blowing thing out of proportions here.

If necessary go ahead and throw this into another thread but I would like it if someone in charge of this or has a better grasp of this could please explain to me how this would work in anything other than theory. I apologize in advance for any ruffled feathers.

walkingbyself has a point. While this does show an example of how "writing is done", the promotion aspect falls short as only the authors with characters in the wiki will have a sample story posted. Those good-quality writers that have been overlooked and have not gotten a single character in the wiki are still going to be overlooked.

Yeah, but I don't think it's really the point of this.
I think the point is that anyone browsing the wiki and seeing a character they would like to read about will have trouble locating their stories, and this is pretty much the best way to help them find those stories.
Increasing the quality of the portrayal of these characters if anyone decides to use them is also a plus, along with showing new writers the general "tone" of a story that is considered good here...
Now as far as us other writers who don't have characters in the wiki get benefitted, well, quite simply we don't, but it doesn't really change anything at all...
However if you were to write a story that involved say, Jade, and Ravanna decided it was good enough that it should be put up on her page, then you get the promotional aspect as well. But let's not forget that this isn't a popularity contest... The point is to flesh out characters that are already on the wiki and nothing more.
Just my 2¢, I think it's a good idea!

Will this only be for characters that have bios on the wiki, or will it be for characters that are mentioned under 'known <species>'?
If the former, I agree with walkingbyself.

However, if I'm understanding this correctly, it will also list stories that contain characters that aren't written by the character's owner but that do portray the character correctly, as approved by the character's owner.

I don't think this idea is perfect, but I do think it's a step in the right direction.

Another step would be doing a similar thing for ideas in the wiki.

For those worried about "'promoting only a little bunch of characters", it's true the idea isn't flawless, but you know what? I consider it a first step.

Sure, according to French Snack's first guideline, I wouldn't have any stories featured in the wiki because none of my characters is canon at all. And I don't mind it.

Also, I'm sure this will have stories that not only show certain characters, but it could also be good for locations (descriptions of places, how flora and fauna act), certain species (showing general behavior, culture and so), etc. Possibilities are there, but canon characters are just that, a first step.

AzureJass wrote:

I approve this idea, it will save a lot of time researching these characters.

Why not do the same for key locations inside Felarya ?

Well, let's do one thing at a time, but as I said I'm fully in favour of doing the same for locations, and I hope that'll be the next step.

walkingbyself wrote:

Erm... pause please? Can you explain to this hairless monkey how this will benefit those writers who's stories wont be receiving mention in the wiki? But from my perspective all I could see is this being nothing more than a form of promotion for a select few writers only and with little if any benefit to those writers who's stories are of good quality yet who's characters don't have an ounce of mention in the wiki or another persons stories who's characters are on the wiki.

Now I get that it helps to understand some of Felarya's more commonly known characters and help stop Fannon's of poor quality or to give those Fannon writers something to base their stories around. Which is great if your going to use another persons characters in a story you should learn all you can about them first then ask to use them. But I fail to see how this benefits others or promotes the other writings based in Felarya when your only giving a select few the spot light. Why would anyone want to read someone else's story about Felarya when they don't receive story mention/ recognition in the wiki? Again I could be reading it wrong and totally blowing thing out of proportions here.

If necessary go ahead and throw this into another thread but I would like it if someone in charge of this or has a better grasp of this could please explain to me how this would work in anything other than theory. I apologize in advance for any ruffled feathers.

Archvile explained it very well, so I won't repeat what he said in any great detail. Part of the aim is to highlight some of the quality stories (rather than the poor quality stories which occasionally draw so much ire), and thereby to provide positive models for potential new writers. But it's not just about that. It's also about giving easier access to more information and depth about canon characters, including for people who may want to use those characters (with permission) and for whom examples of their appearance in stories may be useful.

Obviously that can't be done for characters who are not yet canon on the wiki. But whenever a new character is added to the canon, the same principle will apply.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Will this only be for characters that have bios on the wiki, or will it be for characters that are mentioned under 'known <species>'?

Good question. The characters mentioned under "known member of this species" are canon, but have no specific article. Since they're canon but the wiki doesn't provide information about them, links to stories could seem an excellent way to remedy that. On the other hand, inserting the links in those subsections could seem a little awkward in terms of layout.

It's certainly something to discuss.

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However, if I'm understanding this correctly, it will also list stories that contain characters that aren't written by the character's owner but that do portray the character correctly, as approved by the character's owner.

Yes.

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Another step would be doing a similar thing for ideas in the wiki.

Indeed; why not? The principle is the same.

Thanks for explaining it better. I lay my question to rest.

I do not lay my question to rest. I would like to ask you a question yourself: how often is a character added in the wiki?

My point is that this keeps the same characters in the spotlight. While giving an idea of how the character should be written is nice in theory, you have to realize that people can very well focus only on those super popular characters, and continue to ignore other good writers. I ask you this, is this fair to say that this promote good stories, when those stories are from the same popular writers that have a lot of recognition for the past three years? I know they are popular for a good reason, but this can also paint them as being the only worthwhile authors on dA. The idea that one of your stories appear there under a different character's page as a promotion falls flat. Yes, it may have been a good portrayal of the character, but that fact doesn't change that this story is there because the character is present. Had you written about any of your own characters, assuming they weren't in the wiki, then it would not have appeared. Ergo, that story is promoted, but not entirely because of the author's merit.

I suggest that another idea is proposed to bring overshadowed writers in the limelight. While this may be a step in the right direction, it is only a singular, solitary step. It would be wise to focus on other issues as well. Felarya is not limited to Jade and Crisis. Other good writers deserve recognition.

Sean Okotami wrote:

My point is that this keeps the same characters in the spotlight.

I could say that they are, after all, the canon characters, but I do agree very much that a large number of non-canon characters deserve greater public attention. Clearly, though,
a) links to stories on the wiki are beneficial in a number of ways, and
b) the wiki can't link specifically to stories about non-canon characters, for obvious reasons.

Therefore:

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I suggest that another idea is proposed to bring overshadowed writers in the limelight. While this may be a step in the right direction, it is only a singular, solitary step. It would be wise to focus on other issues as well. Felarya is not limited to Jade and Crisis. Other good writers deserve recognition.

Indeed. That, however, cannot primarily be done through the wiki. It can be done partly through the dA Felarya group, but efforts probably need to be concentrated on the forum.

In the past, I've created a thread listing Felaryan stories, and a thread to promote good new writers. (Some people said good old writers also need to be promoted, which is true, but drawing specific attention to good new writers -such as Oliveleaf, recently- is, I think, unquestionably helpful.) In addition we have Ambrose-euanthe's thread in which anyone can write a short story, which has enabled members of the community to discover various writers who may have been ignored by some until then.

This is the third time I take a positive measure to give greater prominence to good writers. I'm sure more can be done. If anyone has any specific proposals, I'd very much like to see a thread for that issue.

Well, I would like to add something to my statement. I realize this thread has been derailed, but I believe this is worth discussing: what exactly entitles a character to become canon? Is it that the character is well-written and prominent like Grendel? Although I've not read about him, I would say so, but other characters are well-written and are even the spotlight of their own story, yet remain fanon material. Clearly, being well-written and prominent in their story does not warrant them a "promotion" to canon status. If I may, and I know some of you will take this the wrong way, but I believe that the author also needs to be popular. Why else would that character, who is well-written, prominent in its story, and is a good representation of Felarya fail to become canon for years, when someone else can do it in a much shorter amount of time?

Firstly there are a few characters that I can think of who simply don't have bios, so that's one thing.
Second, I think Karbo is "worried" about putting new characters in the wiki precisely because of what you're talking about... Some people get unreasonably miffed when characters they make and deem good enough for the wiki don't make it, and to avoid the ensuing drama, nearly no characters get added at all.
Just look at the way this thread got derailed (albeit only slightly) as proof that this is still a difficult and prickly subject. It's still a sore spot, and one that isn't easily remedied.

As for how to help promote good but overlooked authors, there is something all of us here on the forum can do: If you see a good new writer or an older one who you think deserves more recognition, post about it! In the threads FrenchSnack mentioned or a new one even. Say why you enjoyed it, that will incite others to read good stories they may have overlooked or missed because they were too old and drifted to the bottom of the dA group.
If everyone started doing that, I think that the overlooked authors would get more of the attention they rightly deserve.
I also think that more official recognition would be good, but I have no clue how we could go about it without inadvertently hurting people's feelings.

And it's the "how does a character become canon?" and "there are many unknown good creators out there" thing again...

As it has been stated, this is focused on the wiki aspects. For now, it's a good step, one in the right direction... although it's true that this alone isn't enough. We can't just begin here and let it be this way. There are more ways to get characters better known for further and future stories and pictures, and to accurately portrait certain locations, flora and fauna, we just need to know how to move forward after this first step.

There's also the fact that we don't know how everyone will react to getting their characters being part of the canon or not. I can take it well, but other might consider it an insult. Go figure, we humans are so different to each other...

For promoting artists, FS's threads are a good way. Another one could be done on the dA group - also, the contests serve as a good promotional platform for both writers and artists -, yet I don't know if it'd work, given the dA group covers more than what this forum offers, thus there are more people and more different ways to behave and react to these promotions - so to speak.

Myself? I don't mind being an underdog at all. Sure, I like it when someone reads what I do and comments, showing what they liked and what they didn't... and I enjoy it. But I'm not used to being well-known or the like.

(Sorry for contributing to the slight off-topic, I just wanted to give my opinion on this)

That is my point. In order to avoid drama, very few new characters, excluding those Karbo himself created, are added. But, this behavior put the already popular characters in an even better light, and give the authors who have not obtain the recognition that they deserve a legitimate reason to complain. I understand the desire not to cause drama, but it isn't the solution. He who risks nothing gains nothing. If people complain and cry that "this guy" was added in, this only cements that these persons don't have the maturity to be here and should simply be ignored.

Feadraug, the point of this derailment is to shed light on a flaw of this idea. Particularly how it promotes good stories. As previously mentioned, the idea is to promote good stories about characters in the wiki, so that potential writers get a good idea of how to write them properly. Fair enough. But, these characters are already quite popular, and so promoting their stories alone is yet again casting a shadow over people who also make good representations of the setting. Therefore, saying that this promote good stories is erroneous. The characters are in that wiki because their stories are good and well-known already. What I am saying is that this idea is also a good opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. If a few more good characters is added and this idea is implemented, not only does this give an idea of how Felarya is well-represented through different perspectives, such as an author focusing a lot on humans, but also bring some unknown authors that have produced quality work in the limelight.

The idea could use some improvement since it does only promote select few authors and characters, but IMO it's a good start like everyone has said.

I say go for it.

Sean Okotami wrote:

But, this behavior put the already popular characters in an even better light, and give the authors who have not obtain the recognition that they deserve a legitimate reason to complain.

I don't feel like I have a legitimate reason to complain that the well known characters are getting even more attention, not at all actually.
Characters do not cast shadows, putting more attention on specific characters doesn't diminish the value of others at all. Actually, the contrary can be true... If the first few stories people read are good they are FAR more likely to dig deeper into the setting.

Then explain why the overshadowed writers are so, if shedding even more light on the character that have been praised for three years should, as you say, cause others to dig deeper in dA and find other stories?

I said it can increase their visibility, not that it necessarily means that it does by much.
It's obviously not enough, of course, but one thing that it does definitely not do is overshadow or detract from the less popular characters in any way...

Yet, the fact remains the same. This idea will bring light to writers that have already more than enough shed on them. Indeed there is a possibility that people will then try to find other good stories by other writers, but this is merely that: a possibility. It does not overshadow authors by itself, that is much true, but there is potential in this idea to promote those people who have not been recognized, and it has not been tapped yet.

So I read through all the comments on this thread, and i have to say it's a good idea. Personally i can't really see anything wrong with this as a start - and arguably the only way you really could is if you ( or someone you know) isn't really writing for the fun/satisfaction of it - but rather wide spread glory and admiration.

I ran up on Felarya years ago by virtue of some idiot who stole some of karbo's works (yea.. because that never happens lol) and posted it on youtube with what looked like 8-bit censoring and bad music as an amv. I took the inititive to come to DA, search him out, and do as much reading about felarya as i could. I even remember reading the story that first went with the succubi series, written by karbo himself. From then on i started looking at other authors and artists who had already joined in on the community . From there, i began to try and think up something that was original (or as original as i could feasibly get, because let's face it... in a community this big you're going to have overlap) and that's how i ended up with Relina. From there i wracked my brain trying to come up with a good best friend/companion for her... and by golly that's where Malika came in.

From there i simply began writing with things and ideas that influenced me (interests of mine with a felaryan touch) I used to hit up the wiki all the time when featuring characters (still do) do i could get them as perfect as possible - or by reading the works of who ever came up with the character. I never had the intentions - nor real aspirations of getting any of my characters up there - that (i'm assuming) became reality by virtue of how well they were received - Malika became the most popular of the characters that i have, when i was actually trying to push others up . I have several that people really like - they aren't up there and it's not that big of a deal to me. Because the same thing that happened to me has happened to several of the characters i really liked - and it almost always starts in the same way. You introduce a character, give them a decent or mysterious story, then you bump them into the rest of the community, and pretty soon people find it while looking up other things, they either love it or leave it and before you know it an idea in your head is far more liked than even you yourself would have thought.

To be perfectly honest - throwing every character in the world into the wiki isn't going to do what you think it is... or even adding at a faster pace, because if people dont know the name - or who it is... most the time they aren't going to be bothered to look. I think the best way is to do llike I - and many people i respect have done. Take a character or characters that are not your own, and write with them in a manner that's atleast somewhat compelling and accurate - introduce your characters to THEM first and not the community - you do that in an amicable and believable way, people will grow attached to the newcomers as well. 90% of the artists/authors i know will GLADLY (i personally love seeing how others portray my characters - and some do a better job of it than i do ) allow you the use of their characters. That seems a better way of meshing and getting new comers out there, especially since he DID say that stories NOT written by the author would be on their wiki page. This way, anytime someone researches a character, odds are they will be introduced to ALOT of others in the process, and things can get fleshed out more.

just my 2 cents and a 98 cent tip