Story links on the wiki

Well, that's one interesting point of view, turboman500. I find interesting the part you mention about taking someone else's character and featuring them along with your own. It's quite good, but as you mention, you have to be as accurate as possible. That's why I'm not doing this - I once did, but was for a contest - and I don't go past the mentions of some characters. I don't see myself ready for taking others' characters, though, specially as I've seen a bit of a butchery with my own characters and location by someone else. A bit and harmless if you're like me, but others would find it even offensive. And I don't want to make people angry because of my mistakes.

Anyway, it's a good point, but again with the "be careful with the characters you use".

About overshadowed writers, since I seem to be one of them - at least from Sean's comments, it looks like I could fit -, I still approve of this idea. True, many of us, since we didn't write anything related to canon characters, won't get any visibility with this measure, but as it has been pointed out many times in this thread, there's more to do, this is just a first step - good yet not enough. We have to look into ways to promote writers that deserve more attention but don't get so because of "big names" or because they don't promote themselves that much - trying to overcome this, though, as in the past I was considered an spammer in other places when I tried to promote my stuff... sure, back then I was a bit too enthusiastic, don't want to screw it again.

turboman500 wrote:

To be perfectly honest - throwing every character in the world into the wiki isn't going to do what you think it is... or even adding at a faster pace, because if people dont know the name - or who it is... most the time they aren't going to be bothered to look. I think the best way is to do llike I - and many people i respect have done. Take a character or characters that are not your own, and write with them in a manner that's atleast somewhat compelling and accurate - introduce your characters to THEM first and not the community - you do that in an amicable and believable way, people will grow attached to the newcomers as well. 90% of the artists/authors i know will GLADLY (i personally love seeing how others portray my characters - and some do a better job of it than i do ) allow you the use of their characters. That seems a better way of meshing and getting new comers out there, especially since he DID say that stories NOT written by the author would be on their wiki page. This way, anytime someone researches a character, odds are they will be introduced to ALOT of others in the process, and things can get fleshed out more.

Sound advice, I think; thank you for a bit of overall perspective.

Other than my own characters, I've now added links to authors' own stories, with their permission, for Artemia, Goro, Aurora, Seliky, Jade, Jora, Kai, and Alice, with more to come for Malika, Hiral, Marsha, and Moonlight-pendent's many characters.

As mentioned, there's also the possibility of linking to stories by other writers, but for that I'll need the permission of both the character's owner and the story's writer.

And what of authors that don't want to use that method? Yes it is proven to work but again this is my own perspective that's kinda ridiculous that you would have to introduce your character to a well known one first in order to get recognition. That can't be the only way to get liked by others if it is then I will be blunt that is straight [insert explicative]. Not to begrudge anyone that used that method but that is just well stupid. That you would need to introduce yours to another more popular/ favorite for anyone to like your story/ character. I know by simply writing in Felarya we are borrowing Karbo's world and his work, but seriously that method is just [insert explicative].

I like this idea but it's still seems rather closed off. It's a step in right direction just needs a little more work. But I am willing to watch and see what happens somethings need a chance to get used to in order for things to progress more smoothly and to a more ideal solution. Regardless of personal views.

If you introduce a 'famous' character in your story just for the sake of getting known, it won't work. I find it more like paying tribute to someone you admire and respect, and a good chunk of such respect comes from an accurate representation of their characters.

That's why I'm not going past some little mentions that have no impact in my stories: I don't see myself dealing with other people's characters without screwing things. I still find it an interesting point of view, but it's just that, a point of view. You can share it or plainly disagree. I'll keep going the way I'm going, even if I don't write as often as I'd like to. Not being famous, liking it being an underdog, just writing what I want and being satisfied with the outcome... and then improve.

I highly diasagree with this Idea.


While the Idea of a wiki, a collection of canon material, was good in the beginning, nothing other than this canon-stuffed wiki parted this community so far and probably will part it further in the future.
One group of people doesn't care about the wiki or if they have content in it (People always refer to them as the "best group" - while having one character in the wiki already in most cases). one group is really LONGING for having at least one article or character in it (and will probably never achieve their goal) and then there's the last group who is totally proud of having at least one content in the wiki and rubbing it under the noses of all other people, telling them how easy (or hard, if they want to show off) it was to get them there.

Reason for this problematic aspect is Karbos way of deciding what character is worth to be considered canon. It's definately no question of quality, I have seen dozends of characters (Yes, I do count my own along with them since they're no poorly fleshed out stereotype 5-liners like some official from the wiki (and now if some owner of a canon wiki character feels offended here, I am probably talking about his character, even though I had no particular chracter or auther in mind while writing this) who much more deserve being official. It can't be anything original either (I already mentioned the stereotype thingy - if you look closely, almost all of them are rather friendly, innocent, sexy and voracious with a few alibi-traits so they don't seem to be too boring). It can't be especcially good artwork either, since some of them dont even have artwork. And I dont think every character got onto the wiki because they had a good story.
Development over time isnt a factor as well, (like I worked several months on my characters and some characters of other users have a development for years while others are shortly written and PLING got official because they hit one of karbos nerves or just got lucky to get posted when karbo felt like adding something new) just like "being representative for a species" since many species dont even have one character while we have 300 nagas and succubi there with just one angel (Who's not even interestingly described with just 5 lines, has NO artwork or connection to other things) and (since I have one I'll mention them) no inus at all. Completely new stuff? How about a cool artwork for angels or Inus? Ah, no, because Karbo doesnt feel like it. He chooses black/white scetches over artworks which got like 18 hours of work into it. And please don't try to say something like "time doesnt matter if the scetch looks better" because while being true in some cases, it sure is not true in the case I am referring to.

All it comes down to getting Karbo in a good mood, or inspiring somehow with a little detail or else, no matter how well thought or talented or whatever your idea is, you will just be ignored, most of the time he wont even answer to your question / request here on the forums or fob one off with one sentence. At least this is what happened to me several times here on the forums, so there's no point in arguing against this.


And now, just for the laugh, you are coming here and suggesting a quality insurance method by linking especcially good stories to the characters from the wiki? I can't even laugh about it since it is not a tad bit funny. Really, I don't want to start a fight and please dont take it personally - but for real, under the recent circumstances people can be happy if they get a character through karbos random selection stuff whatever and once they got this, they shall be even more promoted by posting some of their stories which are said to be especcially good (also chosen by some "elite" among our community members? Come on! It's ridiculous. And again, I am neither ranting nor flaming, I am just telling my honest opinion here. which is that this community parting selection of canon stuff shouldn't be supported by an even more parting way of promoting a handful of authors or encouraging people to use canon characters over their own (like walking and sean stated).

Since I dont want to start a fight, but people will probably get pissed at my post, I once more want to state that I do not offend any user here in particular. Maybe Karbo a bit, for his style of "selection", which is, as I stated earlier, in my opinion highly questionable, but heck, he knows I respect him for most of all the rest of the stuff he does and he probably wont need a backup of people who jump in and try to tell me just how wrong I am about even thinking of questioning his methods. It's not important whether I am fully correct in every point - this is my view on the situation and I share it with a fairly big part of the community.

Long story told short:
Before we start to think about standardising methods of selecting "good stories about canon characters to be promoted on the wiki" we should think about standardised methods of selecting what deserves to be on the wiki, other than that "lottery" we have at the moment. Because the Idea as stated in the first post of this threat is - under the current circumstances, highly unfair and just widens the scissors between "popular, highly known" people, the so called elite, and other contributors with more than the mere quality difference.

I don't have a character in the wiki. Probably not something you'd expect from a member who's been around for a while. I've been writing about one character in particular for the last few years constantly, pouring the time I had available into writing a story, doing the best I can, and will never stop writing for her (which is a major concern in wiki characters) yet I have been denied thus far. Personally I would love to have her in the wiki as I have poured my all into her, and I don't believe she's looked down upon either.

I don't really complain though, but my honest opinion would also tend to agree with yours a bit.

People notice characters introduced with already famous ones because that's still what about 80% of the community will notice. If you took every crisis fan out there and put them in our forum our active members number will jump by thousands. Sean and I talk about this quite a bit, actually.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

I don't have a character in the wiki. Probably not something you'd expect from a member who's been around for a while. I've been writing about one character in particular for the last few years constantly, pouring the time I had available into writing a story, doing the best I can, and will never stop writing for her (which is a major concern in wiki characters) yet I have been denied thus far. Personally I would love to have her in the wiki as I have poured my all into her, and I don't believe she's looked down upon either.
.

Can I join the club????

the one who didnt get the point about what mypost was talking about was you, MissVyra, so I am not going to bother about trying to argue with every aspect you mentioned. My main points are still valid and I am not going to let you make me run into fights over details. So instead of accusing me for missing what I am talking about, you should think about my main message which was pretty much igored in your "response". I recommend you to read my post again before taking another attempt in arguing with me. Hint: Try out the summary at the end of my post if you're really desperate in trying to find my main message.

Added story links for Violet, Marsha and Scala, with authors' permissions.

For the rest, this thread has a specific purpose, and I'd prefer it if thread users were not bogged down with a debate which is only tangential to the topic. The issue of how canonisation is decided has no direct bearing on the matter of story links on the wiki; I don't think anyone would argue that these links are not helpful, even if they don't help every writer gain prominence. (And as turboman pointed out, we all started from nothing, as newbies hoping there would be readers who enjoyed our stories.)

If some of you wish to discuss additional methods to help give prominence to writers, please start a separate thread for that purpose. Likewise if you'd like to discuss canonisation and the wiki, but in that case do make sure you don't come across as making demands. As MissVyra quite correctly points out, Karbo is entitled to decide what constitutes canon in his world, and he doesn't "owe" anything to anyone in that regard.

French snack wrote:

Added story links for Violet, Marsha and Scala, with authors' permissions.

For the rest, this thread has a specific purpose, and I'd prefer it if thread users were not bogged down with a debate which is only tangential to the topic. The issue of how canonisation is decided has no direct bearing on the matter of story links on the wiki; I don't think anyone would argue that these links are not helpful, even if they don't help every writer gain prominence. (And as turboman pointed out, we all started from nothing, as newbies hoping there would be readers who enjoyed our stories.)

If some of you wish to discuss additional methods to help give prominence to writers, please start a separate thread for that purpose. Likewise if you'd like to discuss canonisation and the wiki, but in that case do make sure you don't come across as making demands. As MissVyra quite correctly points out, Karbo is entitled to decide what constitutes canon in his world, and he doesn't "owe" anything to anyone in that regard.

I think it IS important and I already stated it in my post. It seems like you guys dont read it properly, but I will repeat it so it comes out clear:

The way Karbo chooses official content is - in my opinion which I have a right to have - highly unfair. His criteria is completely subjective and even though it may be his right to act like this, he's the creator and owner of Felarya after all, it is still in my right to critizise it. My post was not trying to forbide this method of selecting but rather stating out that this method is - in my opinion - unfair and best to be compared to a lottery.
Because of that, there are only few people who can even hope to get stuff in the wiki and since the Idea discussed in this topic here (now we get to the important thing!) is unfair as well since this pomotion of people or characters (depending on your view on things, whether the focus is displaying characters correctly or promoting good stories in the end) is limited to those who are about these - my opinion - randomly selected characters, making this highly unfair as well. You buff a small group of characters / people by giving them a huge increase of content in the wii while the overall people don't benefit from it at all, thus widening the scissors even more.

To all those who think I am just whining because my characters haven't appeared in the wiki: I never asked Karbo to add any of my characters to the wiki yet. Best thing you can do is to accuse me of being offended that he didnt ask me for the permission to enter them (i did ask about entering some of my pictures though, which has been ignored by karbo until I told him like 3 times in a row in order to finally get an answer out of him which was - in my opinion - unjustified, though this is not about the reasons so I wont go into detail here), but this is not just about my characters for me, since, as I stated earlier, there are a lot characters out there which are far better fleshed out and more interesting then some in the wiki and thus deserve to be in there much more. Of couse referring to my own characters is the easiest, so I did that.

I hope that my points became more clear through this, even though things seem to have been already decided by french snack anyway... O.o

Amaroq wrote:

The way Karbo chooses official content is - in my opinion which I have a right to have - highly unfair. His criteria is completely subjective and even though it may be his right to act like this, he's the creator and owner of Felarya after all, it is still in my right to critizise it. My post was not trying to forbide this method of selecting but rather stating out that this method is - in my opinion - unfair and best to be compared to a lottery.

It's not a lottery. A lottery would imply that it's random. Karbo canonises what he considers to fit into his vision of Felarya. Which is perfectly natural.

Quote :

Because of that, there are only few people who can even hope to get stuff in the wiki and since the Idea discussed in this topic here (now we get to the important thing!) is unfair as well since this pomotion of people or characters (depending on your view on things, whether the focus is displaying characters correctly or promoting good stories in the end) is limited to those who are about these - my opinion - randomly selected characters, making this highly unfair as well. You buff a small group of characters / people by giving them a huge increase of content in the wii while the overall people don't benefit from it at all, thus widening the scissors even more.

I'm somewhat uncomfortable with this way of thinking. I do see your point, but it smacks of "If something is going to be good for Felarya (for the reasons mentioned at the start of this thread) but not everyone is going to benefit, then nobody should benefit".

I'm not going to repeat the overall benefits of this measure, but concerning those who do not directly or immediately benefit individually, I suggest that what is needed is new, separate ideas, rather than rejecting existing and overall positive ideas. Having implemented, over time, three ideas myself to increase the prominence of writers, I'm still waiting for others to put forward their own ideas rather than simply emphasise the insufficiencies of my own.

I'd like to return briefly to turboman's point. As I said previously, we all started out from nothing. Some of us happened to write in a way that resonated with Karbo's own vision of Felarya. Regarding what turboman said as to writing about canon characters... He was not simply offering a "tactic" to draw attention. Stories should, ideally, connect with the canon. Those are the stories which are most obviously Felaryan.

I've integrated other people's characters into my stories on occasion: Crisis and Anna, Vivian, Jade and Jora, Felecia and David, Hiral, Medes, Malika... Some of these (Felecia and David, Medes) do not actually have their own articles on the wiki yet, but they are strikingly interesting characters by skilled and appreciated writers. (Similarly, other people integrated some of my characters in their works before they became canon.) I did this because I found these characters genuinely interesting to write about, and because I believe that Felarya is a collaborative project. We're all building a world together, and that implies that boundaries between one another's stories should be crossed; our characters should interact.

With my idea, those who have written good stories which include established characters may appear in the form of links on the wiki. This has the dual advantage of giving prominence to those writers (including writers who may not have characters on the wiki themselves, but who have worked with the canon) and of showing prospective new writers some good examples of how they might write about those characters themselves: positive examples and role-models.

What I would like, ultimately, is for this to go beyond characters, if possible, to also promote stories which are set in canon but underused locations, bringing to life rarely seen parts of the map. Anyone can do that, and it's an excellent way for a writer to show his/her interest in Felarya's "geographic" canon.

I knew you guys would need me once again around... Yesterday I stated some new things, so I don't think I should stop there seeing what has been going on in the last hours.

Amaroq, I can see why you disagree with this idea, but let me tell you one thing... I've been in this community for years, only one idea of mine has been submitted to the wiki, only one of my characters made a cameo in the official comic, my stories and characters are barely known and I don't give a damn about being an underdog. And I've never asked for anything of those things, they just came in the way. In fact, it was Karbo himself who suggested me to have that idea on the wiki and to make that cameo.

I see you're upset and think this won't help, but the point is that, if you think of this as the only step taken, you're wrong in your tracks.

We can all think of ways to improve the idea or to have new ideas aside from this one so people who don't get that much visibility will be noticed more often.

Really... I have many characters that I consider interesting, I like to 'play' with them and show who they are and what they do. If none of them are interesting or good enough for being on the wiki, why should I care or whine? No use. I like to have fun and improve, if something is canonized, good, but if it isn't, then good too. Also, you can go to my characters' thread and look for them. Sure, some are walking - or flying or rooted - stereotypes, but they have some unique traits I want to give them, and my stories expand that, showing their less-predatory side. You can go and point at them and call them 'stereotypes', but nothing to worry about, none of them is canon and isn't stealing space in the wiki for better characters.

Also, about characters' species, anyone can choose the ones they like. I haven't chose my characters' species because of popularity, but of what can better work. I have no nagas because I'm not interested in them, I have no angels because I don't see them in my stories, I don't have centaurs because I've never been a fan of this mythological creature... Like I have my reasons, others have theirs, and they can be as valid as the next guy's.

So yes, I don't mind being not famous, I don't mind my characters not having the same visibility as others. Just because I want to play with the setting and offer what I have, no matter how many will read my stories, no matter how many will know my characters. I'm having fun, I'm improving my literature skills, I'm trying to make my written English more natural. Those are my reasons why I'm here and why I keep writing, even if I don't do it so often, not for a race or trying to be canonized and brag about that. Bragging? That's not my style, sorry. And this is said by someone who's been around for years and has tried to help others.

And I'm sorry I contributed to this bigger derailment, but I just wanted to voice my opinion and, in some points, I can see myself there. Sorry if this upsets you as well, FS...

But now you mention that: working with canon. Now that I have been doing it for long. Sure, as I said, I don't work with others' characters due to my respect and because I don't want to butcher them, but truth to be told, I have been using canon locations, just for giving it the Felaryan touch. And for the rest: you can use different locations, flora and fauna that are on the wiki and give them a good portrait. You have to know that using canon doesn't mean you just feature a canon character. Look at the wiki and its possibilities if you have to, there's more than characters in the canon material.

Geez Amoroq - i read what you typed and reading comprehension not factored in, the first thing that came to mind was "Umadbro?" Then " Cool Story", but this isn't WoW, and even if it was - i'm not a troll - i just feed them because trade chat is funny. That aside, ripping into thoughtful people (I thought MissVyra made several decent and polite points) who provide you thoughtful feedback without addressing their counter points makes you look bad which is most unfortunate, because that further dcreases the chances of people takin ya seriously man.

long post - i fail at quoting, so deal with it

First off, it has gotten rather stupid that everyone (or rather a few someones) are all "French you fail at Wiki bro" (a very short summary - there's a saying a about brevity, but i'm a truck driver not a friggin' philosopher, nor nearly as good as alot of the writers in the community, but i digress) How about a productive idea or two... or 3, maybe to go with or instead of what was suggested? It's real easy for people that pass me on the highway to call me slow moving or a bad driver - until they try getting into a truck themselves. It's the same thing with ideas these days it would seem, it's easy to critcize Karbo and anyone else who isnt immediately putting out the result ya want for what ya want. How about an actual idea and not "BLARGHHHH RAGE HATE bad idea!" or is that asking too much inititive? Here's a better idea - i never could have come up with an entire concept like felarya, but in GM'ing my own custom rpg's back in the day, i have a universe and 3-4 races that i still use-even in my Felaryan writing. You mad cause everyone else doesnt see in you what you see in you? (this is a general statement mind you) Then go make yer own universe or planet, get yerself some peeps up in there and get people into a community around it.


i'd also like to point out that Feadraug was right in saying that using a famous character is a way of showing some respect and really getting some - by virtue of your ability to portray another's characters as intended. It takes alot less skill to show off your own characters when you write, than to properly portray another's. I'll be honest, when i write with Malika it's "What do i wish some really hot girl would say to me if im single or what do i wish my gf would just say out of the blue" bam, easy mode. Wriing with a character like Jade, Milly, Isham, Scala, or any number of characters that i've tried to cameo is a real strain on the brain for me, because i consider them deep characters. Malika is deep, but not for me because i'm the one that came up with her conept. Consequently, nothing is cool er than seeing artists and writers i respect (and even ones i dont know, but soon get to know) portray her as they see her. it amazes me everytime i see how much deeper and clearer she seems when used else where.


Now, there were somethings that was said that DID offend me...or rather a few somethings (dont read this unless yer bored, want to play the guessing game with #1, or you dont plan to give me any sort of thoughtful reply:


1. Stereotypes... Hey, you ever heard of a sterotypical black person? I sure have, and i get poked fun at for not being one. What does this have to do with anything you ask? it's simple, while i might not behave like most people of my race where i live - there are things that i do that are *GASP* stereotypical. The same thing can be said about any characters made in a community. Oh my god, it's a planet with many magical and cool things - among them: GIANT MAN/WOMAN/sometimes KID/and anything else small enough to eat - ing WOMEN (Of various species). All the chars are unique that i've seen, but there's only so friggin much you can do in a circumstance to diffrenciate them... Here, i'll give everyone an example - because such lines have been used to describe Malika and so it's the best example i can think of:

Incase no one knew, Vivian is my absolute FAVORITE character in this universe. That being said i took along look at her character, and decided that in making up my own - i wanted to pay some form of homage to her, but still come up with something very unique and lovable. The main problem with people who call things or use the phrase stereotypical, is that all they seem to look at is the things that make people/characters alike. So lets do an excercise on how this works, i'm going to post the obvious things that make them the same, and i'd like to see someone name off the things that make them different

1. they're nagas
2. they're female
3. They both love sex, the more the better.

On those 3 points, i've heard it and seen it in more places than i want to - here, i'll even give ya a hint on one: What is the difference in their sexualites/sexual archetypes - thats a huge one. It's a fun game, play it!

2. The idea that writing with famous characters in the community is stupid. Let me start off by saying i believe everyone should express their feelings freely and without being flamed, but geez man that's abit harsh! what else would you propose to do in an established community? It's like joining a guild in an mmo and then expecting to get right on their main progression raid team (unless you specifically recruited to do so). It doesn't, nor should it EVER happen. That being said, you cant realisticly expect people to just go make something new and unseen popular all of a sudden - which dovetails into point number 3...

3. Supply and demand. Alot of nagas there are? sure! but think about it, aside from humans, nekos, inus (if they're what i think they are) and a few other types - they are amongst the easiet artisticly to work with. There are many great mermaids for example, and other water preds/chars.... sadly though, unless everything in your stories is in or around water - you kinda limit yourself. Traditional harpies aren't much better either - that whole laungauge + lack of hands kinda makes it a pain lol. There are a few succubi which are really cool, but maybe that goes out of some people's comfort zone (you're prolly thinking... how can you have a comfort zone if you like felarya... it happens). Once you get past that point, the next thing is popularity... basically what it sounds like is that some people want to play socialize the wiki/community. if we did that, there's alot more bad things that have come up that would cancel out most of the wonderful and amazing things that i've seen in years past. We're all competing in the arena of ideas... initially anyway and like it or not. if an idea is going to stand, get popular, or get liked by the community - or its inventor then so be it. If not... what do you honestly suggest we do? Stop adding anything to the wiki at all, or just add everyrhing and make it cannon? Either way people are going to be upset... so it YOU want to do it, not because you want accolades and public recognition for it. I write because i want to tell a story, because i want to show people a vision, day dreams... cool stuff in my head. If i had the time i'd draw it instead, but i dont. The people i'd like to read it and respond, usually do + newcomers... so i'm happy. Ive only ever won 1 writing contest from one of the members in the community, but that doesnt mean anything to me, because in every case i've written what i've wanted to how i wanted to and because i wanted to - not because i wanted it to be popular. Get back to basics with why you write if it's that big of a deal - things might just change faster than you realize.


Sorry for being so long winded, i just dont get on often... so it's best to get it all out, wait then check back . I'm not going to apologize for offending anyone if i did... because this is my thoughts and opinions - like everyone else here. I might as well self censor if im that worried about it - i'm also a truck driver, CDL is a liscense to offend .

If it helps, I don't have any characters on the Wiki either. It's not a big deal per-say. I just stay around and do what I can.

Reminder: The idea is also for character pages to include links to stories written by other writers than the character's owner.

If you own a character on the wiki and you would like to include a link to a story written about your character by someone else, please discuss it with that person to obtain permission, and then let me know (so that I can add it).

Well... since you bring it up, I've written two stories so far where Jade appeared, although she's not the focus of either stories and one of them she appears only at the very end. Does that count?

That would depend on Ravana. Any addition has to be based on the agreement of the author and the character owner. As a general rule, it should be a story in which the character features quite prominently - enough that the story does add something to representations of the character, at least.

Well, I guess that adds to previous points where this may get writers in the spotlight, but not through their own merits, as they need to use the merit of others, which must be the focus of the story, or rather a big part of it. This, again, is putting the already famous writers even more in the spotlight, which they don't need.

F-S

Quote :

That would depend on Ravana. Any addition has to be based on the agreement of the author and the character owner. As a general rule, it should be a story in which the character features quite prominently - enough that the story does add something to representations of the character, at least.

Sean

Quote :

Well, I guess that adds to previous points where this may get characters in the spotlight, but not through their own merits, as they need to use the merit of others, which must be the focus of the story, or rather a big part of it. This, again, is putting the already famous writers even more in the spotlight, which they don't need.

Sorry Sean, but this time I think F-S is 100% right.

Care to elaborate, Miss Krisexy? Simply saying someone is right without specifying how he is does not reinforce his points. French said it himself: lest the character is prominently in the story, it would be added in the character's page. I understand a cameo would not make it, for obvious reasons. However, the character in the wiki must be in the spotlight. Therefore, this only serves to advertise an already popular character somewhere else, and accomplishes little about the author, as it is very easy to read the story for the character, not care for the guy who wrote that particular story, and ignore that writer completely.

If I may add, if this step is to help newcomers get a good feel of Felarya, then this step alone is not enough. You'll notice that the vast majority of characters in the wiki are giants. This covers only one aspect of Felarya, and it's the one thing most people think about. It would be fair to include stories that deal with humans, or life in Negav, and such other complexities. The characters are cool and all, but as the vast majority live in the wild, this is not touching another important aspect of Felarya: how smaller creatures survive in such a dangerous environment, as well as life within their societies.

Sean Okotami wrote:

If I may add, if this step is to help newcomers get a good feel of Felarya, then this step alone is not enough. You'll notice that the vast majority of characters in the wiki are giants. This covers only one aspect of Felarya, and it's the one thing most people think about. It would be fair to include stories that deal with humans, or life in Negav, and such other complexities. The characters are cool and all, but as the vast majority live in the wild, this is not touching another important aspect of Felarya: how smaller creatures survive in such a dangerous environment, as well as life within their societies.

I'm all for links on the Negav page towards stories themed on "life in Negav", for example. Or stories focused on other parts of the map. As I've said before; characters are a first step, but we should consider a similar idea for locations. Maybe species; etc...

First of all, to all those guys (and possibly gals) who posted huge long comments on the exact nature of the criteria Karbo uses to select characters for the wiki - tl;dr.

And I realise I'm probably just throwing fuel on the fire and cluttering up FrenchSnack's excellent thread with an off-topic discussion even more, but it seems to me that people are forgetting that no matter what, the best way to get people to read your stories is to (wait for it...) write good stories; the more the better. Also, you'll become better known if you helpfully critique other people's stories and proofread other's stories. Sure, having one of your works linked to a character on the wiki will be great for becoming more widely recognised, but there are plenty of good writers who don't have characters on the wiki, which is why I come to this forum.

Now, I think that I'm a great writer [okay, I'm a good writer... maybe a passable writer... I suck ] but I acknowledge and accept that my characters will probably never make it onto the wiki, and my stories will probably never be linked to any characters. And while I enjoy it immensely when someone praises my stories, that's not why I write Felarya fanfics. I write Felarya fanfics because I enjoy writing them.

EdgedWeapon wrote:

First of all, to all those guys (and possibly gals) who posted huge long comments on the exact nature of the criteria Karbo uses to select characters for the wiki - tl;dr.

Then you missed some things in the "popularity isn't important, just make good things". xD Now seriously... yeah, some parts of our messages got a bit lost in the "characters being on the wiki" thing, but I'm fed up with people discussing this things when I absolutely don't care about which character is on the wiki... gets me on my nerves despite, as I said, not actually caring. Maybe it's just because, you know, I can't understand the fuss around it.

EdgedWeapon wrote:

it seems to me that people are forgetting that no matter what, the best way to get people to read your stories is to (wait for it...) write good stories; the more the better.

Some of us have never forgotten that to be good you must make good things. But there's a good point you have here and it's in the following quote:

EdgedWeapon wrote:

Also, you'll become better known if you helpfully critique other people's stories and proofread other's stories.

That also helps to build some sense of community. I wish I had more time to read more stories and, better yet, comment them, but life isn't tha fair with me... but I have to note this down in my 'to do' list for this community.

EdgedWeapon wrote:

Now, I think that I'm a great writer [okay, I'm a good writer... maybe a passable writer... I suck ] but I acknowledge and accept that my characters will probably never make it onto the wiki, and my stories will probably never be linked to any characters. And while I enjoy it immensely when someone praises my stories, that's not why I write Felarya fanfics. I write Felarya fanfics because I enjoy writing them.

You and me and many others, buddy. Having fun and nothing else.