Do humans suck?

Ok, this is a thread where you guys can continue the argument over weither or not humans are generally weak motherfuckers.

Want my take on the subject?

They are.


Here, I'll paste a little rant I wrote when i was loosing my mind:


Personally, the human race disgusts me. Every where i look i see people taking our achievments for granted, imposing their wishes on others, acting like arrogant fools in the face of the inevitable (Death). Humans are so blind to how weak they really are. We are not the top of the food chain, that is merely an illusion. We have the largest brains, yes, but that does not make us the most adapted for survival.

A lone wolf can survive for it's complete lifespan off of nature, a lone human in the same conditions will die. I'm not talking if the person can find the nearest city. Stick your average human in the deep wild for 7 years and odds are they will not survive o their own. People rely on others, either to do their work for them or to help them do it. People are ultimately idiots when it comes to survival.

I went on a trip into the Andes last summer with 4 friends (My airsoft team) as a part of our survival training (I require every one to know basics, but my fireteam is required to be experts in survival. We play in many locations where help is not easy to obtain i.e. Tolcom in Massachusets.). My team and I had "real steel" fire arms and all the gear we carry onto the airsoft field and we were going to stay for as long as possible with our provisions (So yes we had technology). We were able to survive for 2 and 1/2 weeks as a fireteam. We could have stayed longer if my goddamn scout's nephew didn't have his conformation. The point is, we were out there in a group and with technology, we could probably have lasted only a month on that, and with our knowledge os survival, maybe a year or two, but no longer.

If we had none of our gear, and were completely alone (As in, not as a team, "lone wolfing" it) we probably would have called in for evac about a week in.

People have weak muscles unless toned, and a weak mind unless toned. Any dumb animal could outsmart a human who does not use their mind on a regular basis. Humans are weak in general. The vast majority of humankind are arrogant, ignorant, or just downright weak. I hate to say it, but people do not deserve this earth, we have polluted and destroyed it since we developed this brain. We are the monsters here. We are beasts, disgusting bastards who do as we wish with little thought for nature. We are so arrogant to think that we are the best, we are supreme among all other animals, we are not, we are at most equals. We are so blind to how weak we really are, and it sickens me beyond possible thought.

We all need to learn that we are nothing that should be praised. We are not a humble species, we are a savage race, who kills for fun. We slaughter our own over things as trivial as oil or, who should run a country. Yes other animals do the same, but we have become extra-ordinary at it. We pride ourselves in finding or inventing more advanced ways of killing eachother and those around us. We are weak in mind, spirit, physical strength, the lot. We are backstabbing selfish jerks. We are not the supreme race, farthest from it, we are the lowest of the low. We do not live for a purpose, to us our puropse is to live, we take everything for granted and give little back, yes there are exceptions, I know.

I am willing to say that even with all i have done to better myself, I am still a weak motherfucking jackass. I am a low, bastard creature, and i know it. I admit my failings and do not ask for forgivness, merely move on. I am selfish, i am a liar at times, and i will do what is nessicary to sustain my way of life, as will all. But humans are generally weak, not just because of our physical failings, people are a nusance, who just consume life, we are parasites on this earth.

I'll summarize my thoughts on humanity with one sentence:

We aint perfect, but we're here and we're all we got, so suck it up and deal with it.

I might sound aggressive, but that's the way it is. It's not gonna change, so you may as well learn to live with the fact that you're surrounded by humans, and so help you, ya just might be one yourself.

Mostly harmless.

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Mostly harmless.

... You know, I think I actually like that response better than my own.

The answer is 42.

If you consider reality, humans are pretty weak individually, or in just small groups. The strength that humans have that allow them to be a force to be reckoned with comes from two main things.

1. We can work together if we want to or it is necessary. While there are many things that can work in teams, such as wolves, ants, etc., we can do an intelligent division of labor according to ability.

2. Humans change their environment to suit themselves. Again, there are many animals that do this as well, it is mostly limited to simple burrows, construction of nests or dens. I am, at the moment, sitting in a house made from brick, wood, glass, and many other materials that require much more than simple piling up, or mixing with spit for assembly, and it works much better at protecting me from nature.

Humans are complex. How they think and why they act as such will probably always be a mystery.

Oh! And to quote an old friend:

Oh noes! The dominant specie is being dominant!

People are physically weak; the way a person's mind can craft ideas, objects, and dreams make people capable of destroying the world itself. You wouldn't fear a totalitarian ruler because of how hard they can punch you, but because of the non-physical power they have. If you feared someone of say... Arnold Schwarzenegger's strength because of their physical prowess, you could simply buy a rifle to fight back.

Are people physically weak? For the most part, yeah. Mental power is a whole 'nother level, though.

*Negeyari smiles* "The humans in my village are strong! Because they work hard at fishing and other kinds of labor!"

Well humans used to be physically strong, back when they had to live off the land and whatnot, these days it seems like the most work some do is pushing buttons while eating donuts.

Tora wrote:

*Negeyari smiles* "The humans in my village are strong! Because they work hard at fishing and other kinds of labor!"

Well humans used to be physically strong, back when they had to live off the land and whatnot, these days it seems like the most work some do is pushing buttons while eating donuts.

i agree

Delicious Kevin wrote:

Ok, this is a thread where you guys can continue the argument over weither or not humans are generally weak motherfuckers.

Want my take on the subject?

They are.

My refutation to this is simple:

We have the capacity to dwell on this question.

And don't ever forget that we have gone from being food for the lions, to hunting lions (read up on the Maasai) and making them fear us (again, read up on the Maasai), and ultimately putting them in cages.

We evolved from the dominated to the dominant.

Take away our technology and a lot of us will die - but then what happens if you cut a wolf's leg off? Same thing.

Humanist, always have been and always will be.

Delicious Kevin wrote:

Personally, the human race disgusts me.

Not me. Though that's more of a Pro-Human thing. Oh, and because most of the 'despicable' acts of humanity (Murder, rape, war, etc) still go in the animal kingdom.

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Stick your average human in the deep wild for 7 years and odds are they will not survive o their own. People rely on others, either to do their work for them or to help them do it. People are ultimately idiots when it comes to survival.

Groups are actually a good thing for survival more than because 'individuals are dumb'. A lone anything can easily be snuck up on, be helpless if injured, etc. With a group you can afford to take a minor injury in the sum of things, and can rely on someone to help pick the poisonous creepers off your back.

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The point is, we were out there in a group and with technology, we could probably have lasted only a month on that, and with our knowledge os survival, maybe a year or two, but no longer.

And yet, it is possible to live longer. The hurdle in survival is always the first year, but odds are that anyone who can overcome such can survive indefinitely until help arrives (Provided they didn't have a surplus of starting supplies to carry them through more than a season).

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Any dumb animal could outsmart a human who does not use their mind on a regular basis.

Perhaps, though when using 'Idiot v Idiot', the idiot who also has some innate skills is likely to win over the one without.

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Humans are weak in general.

I wouldn't say that. A 'Human', yes. Groups of humans (And most animals, in general) tend to be strong. And even then, the 'general' human depends on the era, location, culture, etc.

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The vast majority of humankind are arrogant, ignorant, or just downright weak. I hate to say it, but people do not deserve this earth, we have polluted and destroyed it since we developed this brain.

Pollution hasn't been caused by animals (Except in terms of water pollution), though we aren't the only things damaging the environment. Animals that shift habitats suddenly (Through even their own actions) can kill several ecosystems within decades or less, depending on their success.

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\We are beasts, disgusting bastards who do as we wish with little thought for nature.

Animals don't care either. They have two main urges themselves: Eat, Reproduce. If something has to be destroyed to do such (Whether via overconsumption, driving from their home, etc) so be it.

[quote]We all need to learn that we are nothing that should be praised.[quote] We survived through at least one Ice Age, have harnessed the power of atoms, have begun the art of space travel, have formed literature to last throughout the ages, figured out some of the minor laws of the universe. I think we're doing quite well, and deserve a pat on the back. We do this even with the war we cause (Which we actually thrive and improve off, unlike war between arthropods and other phylums), the crimes we commit (Just a few weeks ago, a sexually frustrated seal raped a penguin. Similarly, animals steal all the time from eachother), etc.

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We are not a humble species, we are a savage race, who kills for fun.

Not fun. Those that kill for fun are called 'insane', and for good reason. We may have fun while killing, but we don't go "I'm bored, let's go kill some people!"

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We pride ourselves in finding or inventing more advanced ways of killing eachother and those around us.

And defending ourselves, and medical advances, and interstellar knowledge.

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We are weak in mind, spirit, physical strength, the lot.

Mind, no. Physical, yes. Spirit, with most everything else on the planet we are the top of spirit. If you're going to argue about something stupid we do, the strength of spirit should be it.

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We are backstabbing selfish jerks.

Because the selfless individuals died off saving the backstabbing selfish jerks. Those who're noble volunteer themselves for life-or-death situations, and the universe is not a fair thing that saves those who do good. One must work to save themselves, and volunteering to go back for the friend is not working for yourself.

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We are not the supreme race, farthest from it, we are the lowest of the low.

I find us highest of the high. Show us one other species that has gotten as far as we have in such a short amount of time?

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We do not live for a purpose,

Nothing does. Well, sorry, we all live with a 'purpose': Feed, and reproduce. That is the main thing hardwired into nearly everything's head.

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we are parasites on this earth.

And so is every other species. Nothing cares for the sake of the environment. The only difference is that we have such a high population and it spread over such an area, that we make a notable difference on a larger scale than a simple shellfish brought into a lake.

In my opinion humans sure don't *sucks*.. you can't paint a whole race in black and white like that. Humans are incredibly complex.

They need something to vent their frustration, agressivity, fear of the unknown on. It can be the neighbour, foreigners, people of a different religion, an idea, color of skin etc... something that symbolize the "other", that which is not in the human's social group.

At first the social group was the rival tribes of an area, then towns, then regions, then nations..
Confront mankind to a mortal danger coming from *outside* such as an alien species and you will have all the earth reunited in not time against it.


Now for the thread.. well I let it be for now to see how it will evolve but at the first sign of a flame war starting I will lock it. So please keep the discussion friendly and civil

I'm rather neutral on the issue. Yes, humans are guilty of crimes against nature on several occasions. But you forget the marvels that humans have done over time, and thankfully not all humans are as you describe. We've earned just enough to not be wiped out.

And on a different issue, one could hail the Felaryan predators as heroes and heroines for keeping these so called evil humans in check. They're all like little mini-guardians, keeping Felarya from falling into human overpopulation, be it intentional or not. Especially Crisis, who should likely receive a medal for her work.

Crisis deserves her own flavor of ice cream, screw the medal! XP

I would gladly try Crisis's ice cream flavor!

Pendragon wrote:

I'm rather neutral on the issue. Yes, humans are guilty of crimes against nature on several occasions. But you forget the marvels that humans have done over time, and thankfully not all humans are as you describe. We've earned just enough to not be wiped out.

And on a different issue, one could hail the Felaryan predators as heroes and heroines for keeping these so called evil humans in check. They're all like little mini-guardians, keeping Felarya from falling into human overpopulation, be it intentional or not. Especially Crisis, who should likely receive a medal for her work.

The humans would probably evolve and overwhelm the likes of Crisis anyway. Who, in reality, have we not overwhelmed?

I'm talking about a scenario that utterly excludes the Miratans and depends on existing humans evolving new tech on their own. Negav city is inherently a breeding ground for a ton of new technology. The first time some surface to air missile or a main battle tank is invented, you can pretty much rest assured that humans will move into Naga/Harpy territory and force them out.

It's the fairies, with their writing and such, that pose the biggest threat to humans.

It's true. Predators may be as human as us, but their immense power makes them more feral and less dependant on technology. As a consequence, they're less adaptable to new issues and would more than likely be less than equipped to deal with a threat like encroaching humans.

Dependance on technology is actually a strength in many ways. It allows you to adapt to new issues. If a polar bear winds up in the outback, it'll die, no question. Drop a human there, and they at least have a chance of figuring out how to keep cool enough to survive.

GREGOLE wrote:

It's true. Predators may be as human as us, but their immense power makes them more feral and less dependant on technology. As a consequence, they're less adaptable to new issues and would more than likely be less than equipped to deal with a threat like encroaching humans.

Dependance on technology is actually a strength in many ways. It allows you to adapt to new issues. If a polar bear winds up in the outback, it'll die, no question. Drop a human there, and they at least have a chance of figuring out how to keep cool enough to survive.

In some sci fi stories, most notably Starcraft, the pred-equivalents manage to evolve a solution to opposing technology. It would be quite interesting if the preds of Felarya could adapt, or even use magic to adapt in the way humans use technology.

Of course, you do know that many Preds rely on magic in Felarya. There would be a great culling if they were all stripped of that magic.

Crisis on the other hand does not rely on magic...

There was an old science fiction story, that I wish I could remember the name of, where the human planets were at war with another race, and they tried to start a mining colony on a very material rich planet. They were captured, and they surrendered with the condition that the ones who wouldn't be fit for slaving away in mines were to be dropped on a habitable planet. The aliens technically kept their word by dropping them on a planet named Ragnarok. The planet wasn't colonized because it was a killer. It had several very dangerous killing herbivorous species and a (determined later) sentient wolf/cat predator that realized that the humans would take their place on top - and did their best to destroy them. Oh, and gravity was 1.5 times Earth-normal, and the seasonal weather went to killing extremes of cold and hot. To make a long story short, the humans, by drawing on all their knowledge that they could and working together managed to stay alive and grow their community enough to be a threat. The first generation made sure that their descendants would stay as strong as possible by constructing a 'radio' that would call the aliens back, with the time until their getting the signal ('Ragnarok calling') being put at several hundred years later. When the aliens heard and came to check things out, the humans had not only managed to survive, they had force evolved to thrive in the new environment, with strength and reaction times much greater than normal humans. They managed to take the aliens' ship and had passed down the knowledge on how such things worked to take control to set out to free the rest of humanity.

I don't know how well that would actually work in real life, but humans are indeed extremely adaptable.

Raveolution wrote:

GREGOLE wrote:

It's true. Predators may be as human as us, but their immense power makes them more feral and less dependant on technology. As a consequence, they're less adaptable to new issues and would more than likely be less than equipped to deal with a threat like encroaching humans.

Dependance on technology is actually a strength in many ways. It allows you to adapt to new issues. If a polar bear winds up in the outback, it'll die, no question. Drop a human there, and they at least have a chance of figuring out how to keep cool enough to survive.

In some sci fi stories, most notably Starcraft, the pred-equivalents manage to evolve a solution to opposing technology. It would be quite interesting if the preds of Felarya could adapt, or even use magic to adapt in the way humans use technology.

Of course, you do know that many Preds rely on magic in Felarya. There would be a great culling if they were all stripped of that magic.

Crisis on the other hand does not rely on magic...

the presense of magic allows crisis to sustain her massive bulk with less nourishment From what karbo said.

lami wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

GREGOLE wrote:

It's true. Predators may be as human as us, but their immense power makes them more feral and less dependant on technology. As a consequence, they're less adaptable to new issues and would more than likely be less than equipped to deal with a threat like encroaching humans.

Dependance on technology is actually a strength in many ways. It allows you to adapt to new issues. If a polar bear winds up in the outback, it'll die, no question. Drop a human there, and they at least have a chance of figuring out how to keep cool enough to survive.

In some sci fi stories, most notably Starcraft, the pred-equivalents manage to evolve a solution to opposing technology. It would be quite interesting if the preds of Felarya could adapt, or even use magic to adapt in the way humans use technology.

Of course, you do know that many Preds rely on magic in Felarya. There would be a great culling if they were all stripped of that magic.

Crisis on the other hand does not rely on magic...

the presense of magic allows crisis to sustain her massive bulk with less nourishment From what karbo said.

Also, her magic hasn't manifested yet. It WILL eventually.

lami wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

GREGOLE wrote:

It's true. Predators may be as human as us, but their immense power makes them more feral and less dependant on technology. As a consequence, they're less adaptable to new issues and would more than likely be less than equipped to deal with a threat like encroaching humans.

Dependance on technology is actually a strength in many ways. It allows you to adapt to new issues. If a polar bear winds up in the outback, it'll die, no question. Drop a human there, and they at least have a chance of figuring out how to keep cool enough to survive.

In some sci fi stories, most notably Starcraft, the pred-equivalents manage to evolve a solution to opposing technology. It would be quite interesting if the preds of Felarya could adapt, or even use magic to adapt in the way humans use technology.

Of course, you do know that many Preds rely on magic in Felarya. There would be a great culling if they were all stripped of that magic.

Crisis on the other hand does not rely on magic...

the presense of magic allows crisis to sustain her massive bulk with less nourishment From what karbo said.

Yeah, but for hunting, she doesn't currently rely on magic, which is a huge plus for her. The way she rolls, when her magic manifests she's going to be known as Quad friggin Damage Crisis. (Imagine Crisis running around with the "Quake" logo spinning on her back or some crap like that hahahah.)

And when someone casts anti-magic all over the planet, I'd speculate that she'll make it just fine - she'll up her appetite and have the skills to catch her daily allowance.

But what would her as-of-yet unseen magic manifest as? I foresee a Crisis that has the ability to access the dryad network- there won't be a single human on Felarya that she doesn't know about. Or scarier yet, if she could control plants. Vines shooting up out of the ground, no matter where you went. Scary.

"Hey, is it just me, or are the trees giggling?"

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the presense of magic allows crisis to sustain her massive bulk with less nourishment From what karbo said.

Not necessarrily. Yes, Felarya's a magic-rich environment, but it's also possible that the relative lack of food among the predators, despite their great size might have less to do with magic than it does with warped laws of physics.
It would explain how energetic, non-magical creatures like kenshas are able to survive at such great size with such massive energy expendeture without having to constantly eat.

It's possible that creatures like nagas, dridders and kenshas originate from some dimension where the laws of physics differ, and those laws have been carried over into Felarya. For instance, maybe dridders' home dimension treats them as though they're no bigger than ordinary spiders. It would explain how they can somehow support themselves on those spindley legs, and manage to stand up without sinking into the ground.

But this is all beside the point.

The original point was that Crisis doesn't directly rely on magic. Logic says neither do a lot of predators. That's one disadvantage they have when competing with humans.

Add to it, Felaryan humans tend to know magic as well...

Felarya is the perfect storm for macro preds to thrive- impossible physics and a practically inexhaustible supply of nourishment in the form of humans traveling to their world.
Many Felaryan predators are far bigger than any form of life we've ever seen on this planet. As long as the predators have such an extreme advantage of sheer size, humans' dependence on technology and magic will never be able to save them from their place in the food chain. There are exceptions of course, such as Negav city and the Deluran underground base, but in general, humans in Felarya are, like I said, mostly harmless.

/Fish/ wrote:

Felarya is the perfect storm for macro preds to thrive- impossible physics and a practically inexhaustible supply of nourishment in the form of humans traveling to their world.
Many Felaryan predators are far bigger than any form of life we've ever seen on this planet. As long as the predators have such an extreme advantage of sheer size, humans' dependence on technology and magic will never be able to save them from their place in the food chain. There are exceptions of course, such as Negav city and the Deluran underground base, but in general, humans in Felarya are, like I said, mostly harmless.

Size doesn't matter. Bigger doesn't necessarily means better. I think the reason is because the preds in Felarya already have adapted to the environment; they already have a good idea of how this place, somehow, works. Humans that comes from another world, however, finds themselves in an unknown land. They have no idea what to expect here most of the time. But, with time, they will be able to deal with most of its danger.