Predator Sense

Lea's medallion makes she doesn't draw the attention of predators who possess the famous "predator sense" But it doesn't mean she can be detected by the more mundane sense like view and smell etc... In the manga she has been cursed, she attracts easier any starving predators. She uses it because the attraction started to affect her closest friends.

I think those are great ideas indeed and well described. However this is not really *the* predator sense right ? more like regular heightened senses ? I'm not really for removing the predator sense altogether since it's a nice unique feature and has also has been used in a lot of stories ...

But what we can do is to add those to species since they make sense I think ^^
After all there is a certain number of entries that could indeed use some rewriting at this point...

AJ : I'm sorry, this is not a change of stance, it was me who badly formulated it. Don't worry though, I don't want to extend it to every preds or something like that. it's just that, to the question : "are the *only* creatures having the predator sense in Felarya nagas, fairies and deerataurs ?" the answer would be no.

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I think those are great ideas indeed and well described. However this is not really *the* predator sense right ? more like regular heightened senses ? I'm not really for removing the predator sense altogether since it's a nice unique feature and has also has been used in a lot of stories ...

Isn't the "predator sense" by itself simply a heightened sense?

This isn't removing it altogether either, at all. It is simply limiting the magical sense to fairies, and occaisional individuals that learned how to do it.

You've said before that you never meant for all species to be able to use it. This just locks it in as a unique ability for fairies 90% of the time, and then gives everyone else new senses (some of which are even better than the predator sense in some ways) to help make everyone a bit more distinct. Felarya is supposed to be a land of endless variety, why would a bunch of different species, with different anatomies, different habitats, different hunting tactcs and so on have the same sense?

Why does anyone besides fairies need the "predator sense"? I could see why they'd have it. It allows them to keep track of their pack-mates, even if they can't see them (since fairies are so powerful magically), and can also be turned into a hunting tool in some instances. I get why fairies have it, and am fine with that. For any other species though... it just seems like an arbitrary ability that got tacked on.

i have to say cliff's idea is really appealing to me

Well there are two reasons to me :

The first is it worked like that so far and changing that would contradict a lot of stories, including the manga ( like the tome 3 where Crisis give an explanation on what is it and how nagas and fairies use it )

And the second is I think it's a neat ability that is really unique to Felarya and that works well and make sense with the magic "field" of the world.

However each of these sense you described make sense ( sorry can't find another word XP ) for their species and I clearly think we could add them to their entries ^^

I never had any problems with the predator sense being exclusive to only three species. It always struck me as something only those with a high affinity to magic would have, like an extra to natural heightened senses

If anything it should be called something other than PREDATOR sense. The name is misleading and kinda leads to these arguments

Alternate title

My naga senses are starting to tingle

This is a really cool idea!
I see a potential solution to the whole 'already in stories' thing though: all fairies and SOME nagas (with different species being more likely to have it, like diamond nagas) could have it naturally, and everything else has those other senses Cliff proposed.
We could also add that any highly magic-attuned species could be able learn it through rigourous training, like what Cliff proposed for Crisis. The more attuned the species, the easier the training, so it would be ridiculously hard for even a human mage to train, but relatively easy for, say, an elemental.
That way it would explain why nagas in some older stories have it and why in other stories they seem to lack it... And people would (hopefully) stop writing about dridders and mermaids with 'predator sense' because they have something unique and interesting to use instead.
Speaking of mermaids, I think their special sense should be the ability to sense minute pressure changes and vibrations in the water, like some fish can.
Also, regarding these senses not being 'special' enough, we could just push these senses a little further than their natural counterparts. A bolas dridder's ability to sense movement on webs it isn't touching is a good example of this. What if nagas could sense the vibration of even the small species? Snakes couldn't of course, but this is felarya after all, maybe nagas should... (Just an example, but that could be rather cool actually... Make for some tense scenes!)
Just, putting that out there for your consideration.

Also, because of Black Boo's characters, (of which two I believe have hindered eyesight, and one was born blind) raises the point that if you have permanently damaged senses, the predator sense would be an excellent way to make up for that, and could be really strong because of it.

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The first is it worked like that so far and changing that would contradict a lot of stories, including the manga ( like the tome 3 where Crisis give an explanation on what is it and how nagas and fairies use it )

To be fair, changing the size of predators contradicted a lot of stories, but it was still great change for the setting itself.

As for the manga, I don't think it actually messes with it that much. Crisis explains how she uses HER sense. She never actually says other nagas can do it. I mean, given how much time she's spent around fairies, and how little time she's spent with her own kind, Crisis might think that all nagas can do it. She might not even realize that she's an exception to the norm because of her upbringing. Really the only big contradiction is the predator amulet of Lea's, which would likely need to be tweaked slightly.

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And the second is I think it's a neat ability that is really unique to Felarya and that works well and make sense with the magic "field" of the world.

Its already pretty limited though. Only three known species have it. All Im doing is reducing down to one species (which, I always felt fairies made the MOST sense to have it out of all the others), and proposing some new, and in some ways more practical, abilities for the other predator species. Fairies and a few rare individuals like Crisis, and probably Mezzus, would still have it and nothing would change in how it works.

Really, its just fine-tuning the magical sense and expanding on other predator senses.

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Also, regarding these senses not being 'special' enough, we could just push these senses a little further than their natural counterparts. A bolas dridder's ability to sense movement on webs it isn't touching is a good example of this. What if nagas could sense the vibration of even the small species? Snakes couldn't of course, but this is felarya after all, maybe nagas should... (Just an example, but that could be rather cool actually... Make for some tense scenes!)

To be fair, I was just proposing a general base for the senses. Predators exist in a massive variety of sub-species and in many different environments. I imagine both factors will affect how they use their senses. Different sub-species are probably going to have different uses for their senses, or put their own spin on ones they have. There will be some variation.

As for the vibration sense though, ehh, I never inteded it to be for hunting. Its more of a defensive sense, to keep a look out for larger, potentially dangerous creatures. Nagas already have enhanced human senses and a very fine-tuned sense of smell. They're fine when it comes to hunting I think.

rcs619 wrote:

To be fair, changing the size of predators contradicted a lot of stories, but it was still great change for the setting itself.

As for the manga, I don't think it actually messes with it that much. Crisis explains how she uses HER sense. She never actually says other nagas can do it. I mean, given how much time she's spent around fairies, and how little time she's spent with her own kind, Crisis might think that all nagas can do it. She might not even realize that she's an exception to the norm because of her upbringing. Really the only big contradiction is the predator amulet of Lea's, which would likely need to be tweaked slightly.

Well actually no.. she says : " Magical creatures such as nagas or fairies possess the ability to locate these signatures"
So she is really including nagas in general. And you see plenty of stories where nagas use that sense naturally.

rcs619 wrote:

Its already pretty limited though. Only three known species have it. All Im doing is reducing down to one species (which, I always felt fairies made the MOST sense to have it out of all the others), and proposing some new, and in some ways more practical, abilities for the other predator species. Fairies and a few rare individuals like Crisis, and probably Mezzus, would still have it and nothing would change in how it works.

Really, its just fine-tuning the magical sense and expanding on other predator senses.

One of the reason I rephrased the entry is I don't think only three species use it. I'm pretty certain elementals would have it was well for example. So yeah I'm really for letting the predator sense as it is, but refining each species way of sensing things is definitely a great idea.

Karbo wrote:

One of the reason I rephrased the entry is I don't think only three species use it. I'm pretty certain elementals would have it was well for example. So yeah I'm really for letting the predator sense as it is, but refining each species way of sensing things is definitely a great idea.

I really agree with this.

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Well actually no.. she says : " Magical creatures such as nagas or fairies possess the ability to locate these signatures"
So she is really including nagas in general. And you see plenty of stories where nagas use that sense naturally.

Still though, my idea could still work.

Like I said, she was raised by fairies. She's spent very little time around her own kind. She could really think all nagas can use the magical sense too. Crisis is kind of a special case, she isn't a true naga, as much as she is a fairy trapped in a naga's body.

You also see plenty of old stories where predators were 70ft tall. Conflicting with a couple non-canon stories is never really a good excuse to not do something that could be better for the setting.

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One of the reason I rephrased the entry is I don't think only three species use it. I'm pretty certain elementals would have it was well for example. So yeah I'm really for letting the predator sense as it is, but refining each species way of sensing things is definitely a great idea.

Actually, yeah. Elementals are basiclaly intelligent magical energy possessing some inanimate matter. I could see them being able to sense magical signatures as well.

Think we could just limit it to fairies, elementals and rare individuals then? What reason do nagas and deerataurs, or any other species, need it as a common, shared ability? Hell, I could see angels and demons having it too. Why don't we just keep it to the rarer/highly-magical species then?

cliffy wrote:

Still though, my idea could still work.

hahaha. When I read that sentence, I wasnt surprised to see it came from you

Karbs wrote:

One of the reason I rephrased the entry is I don't think only three species use it. I'm pretty certain elementals would have it was well for example. So yeah I'm really for letting the predator sense as it is, but refining each species way of sensing things is definitely a great idea.

i also agree with this

Actually for angel/demons I see it more based on souls than magic , but it would work in a pretty similar way; a very dark/pure soul would drive a lot of attention, while a more "inbetween" soul will remain more discrete - the same way a great mage will drive more attention than someone with very little magic (with the predator sense)
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Anyways, I agree with Cliff in most of the points; the predator sense (or magical radar of the sort) should be more something based on very magical beings. Of course, I think that it should still be learneable for others species too, but not with the same ease.
If for some reason it contradicts with some stories who use it ... well, I don't think it's really a problem; it's enough by saying "from now on it works this way" and make it know. Plus, the "naga sense" is not so different, or at leats not enough to change completely a plot because of it. It's just more based on smell than magic, giving different weaknesses and advantages, but nothing too different.

Now concerning Lea's amulete ... yea it will have to be studied a bit, but it's not impossible to make it fit to the description.

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Plus, the "naga sense" is not so different, or at leats not enough to change completely a plot because of it. It's just more based on smell than magic, giving different weaknesses and advantages, but nothing too different.

I hadn't actually thought of it like that, but I don't think you're too far from the truth with that.

The naga's improved sense of smell, the dryad's new sense, the signal webs and senstive legs for the dridder... they all kind of do the same thing that the old magical sense did. It lets them get an idea of where a potential prey item might be, without them having to see them. They just do them through different means than sensing magical fields.

But yeah, I agree that angels and demons would probably sense souls, and your points on that seem reasonable enough.

I figure mermaids could sense changes in water pressure, or also have very good senses of smell (similar to sharks or other predatory fish).

There really are a TON of ways to go with this idea, and I haven't even factored in a lot of the sub-species or preds living in different environments.

Feels like I'm reading some odd Felaryan version of Harrison Bergeron here. I don't think the predator sense is too powerful or too overused to warrant this much change. It can be abused, but then so can almost any ability given to predators or prey.

I like Stabs idea of coming up with and explaining various foils. That is something an author can use much more readily than adding a heap of restrictions/rules on it - or attempting to restrict it to a tiny fraction of the Felaryan predator population.

I would tread very carefully with the notion that this needs a rewrite - the ability is not new. It's in the manga. It pops up in many stories.

I also like the idea of fleshing out other predator senses, although I would strongly suggest keeping things generalized and not specific. This should not become a straitjacket, "No, your dridder can't do that because dridders do this." I would also extend Stabs original idea to cover these as well, by coming up with ways to avoid/misdirect/counter these senses. That is something that would very helpful to would-be writers.

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- or attempting to restrict it to a tiny fraction of the Felaryan predator population.

...But it already is. All Im suggesting is that two species have it (fairies and maybe elementals), instead of the four that currnetly do. Some rare individuals could still learn it, and all the other predator species get their own unique tricks and senses to detect prey. Some of which are far more practical or effective than the current "predator sense"

It isn't even about restricting the predator sense, so much as helping it to make sense. It makes sense for fairies to have it. Being able to sene magical fields would let them keep tabs on their pack. Why would a naga need it though? Why would anything else? Why not give them something different, soemthing that can be used to expand their species, instead of saying "Oh, these preds all have the same ability for some reason".

Its an ability held over from old-Felarya, and like a lot of old-Felaryan concepts, it hasn't changed much and needs a bit of tweaking. In my opinion anyway.

Honestly, this would make Felarya MORE dangerous, since preds would be getting new ways of detecting prey. Things you can't dodge by learning to suppress your magical signature. It would help show off their more inhuman aspects, which is something that really does tend to get glossed over in a lot of stories.

I'm actually surprised you're not going with the idea that the Naga's predator sense is more like heat sensing. After all, Nagas tend to develop natural magical talent once they reach a late age, barring certain species of Nagas (what is an emerald naga, anyway?) which implies that Nagas tend to more magical than the average. Not highly, but kinda like an elf is a bit more magic proficient than a human. This magic sensing could be a preliminary for of this latent potential.

I also agree with timing that this shouldn't be an iron clad rule. There is always bound to be exceptions. If you ask me, this predator sense could also be more individual. For instance, a typical dridder may resort to more mundane ways of detecting a potential prey, but if another dridder actually practiced magic, or for some reason, was born with innate magic, it wouldn't be far fetched that he or she would possess this sense.

If you ask me, this isn't any more different from a mage sensing another without making any eye or auditory contact, which is already a common fictional concept. It may be more natural to certain species and it could be a little more common than average among others, it does not mean that every single members of that species will have it, or that someone who has it can't use something he or she believes work better. Stabs mentioned that Subeta uses a detection spell, when she most likely possess this predator sense.

If I was new to the setting and someone spoke of "predator sense", I would think it is something every predator has that 'magically' allows them to detect future prey. I like this thread in the sense that it will help to give many points of view on the matter and specially flesh the whole thing.

My opinion is that the term 'predator sense' is a very loose one. It doesn't need to be a magical ability, it can rely on enhanced senses as well. That's, at least, what I think. Predator sense could be many things, all ending in a hunch, after all. It is not a precise thing, just something that makes the predator aware of the presence of some potential meal.

The idea of making this a loose term and then explaining how in general it works for each main species is a good one. However, each species has its subspecies and the might not have the same behavior. Some might leave it to magic or senses alone, and others can couple them. Anyway, we also part from the false assumption - at least in my opinion it isn't 100% true - that "everything is magical". Sure, everything has a sort of magic field around, some more powerful than others, but that doesn't mean every Felaryan has the ability to cast spells.

But this is from the point of view of something who thinks that "predator sense" a way too general term. There should be some different name for what fairies, nagas, deerataurs, elementals and other 'magical' species would consider some kind of hunch. At least, to prevent confusion.

Also, only time I used something like 'magic detection' was in a parody that no longer exists and it was more based in the dryads' network rather than pure magic. That's not a predator sense, as it could be used for detecting anything, and as I said, it was a parody, it doesn't exist anymore and, of course, is not canon. (It would, however, match the ideas on dryads that Cliff has given)

And...

Vaderaz wrote:

Actually for angel/demons I see it more based on souls than magic , but it would work in a pretty similar way; a very dark/pure soul would drive a lot of attention, while a more "inbetween" soul will remain more discrete - the same way a great mage will drive more attention than someone with very little magic (with the predator sense)

Kind of tricky. Though I agree that for angels and demons it makes more sense the fact they should feel the presence of a soul and not rely on some 'magical predator sense', the darkness/purity factor shouldn't be a factor of detection at all. Souls are souls and despite having different ranks of purity/darkness, these shouldn't influence how they are detected. At least that's what I think.

PS: Finally, regarding something Cliff said about "fairies antenna being good for something", what if the fairy has no antenna at all? (though looking at how the thread has gone, I think it has been discarded, or at least forgotten or left aside)

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PS: Finally, regarding something Cliff said about "fairies antenna being good for something", what if the fairy has no antenna at all?

Well then they need to get them.

Because antennas are cute.

I never thought of antennae being actually that useful for fairies, just something to add to the more bug-like nature rather than usual fairies. Also, I don't wanna redesign Kyria. xD

Ahem... Now in all seriousness, yes, I have my doubts about antennae having a big function in the "predator sense" for fairies. But I can be totally mistaken, it wouldn't be the first time.

Feadraug wrote:

I never thought of antennae being actually that useful for fairies, just something to add to the more bug-like nature rather than usual fairies. Also, I don't wanna redesign Kyria. xD

Ahem... Now in all seriousness, yes, I have my doubts about antennae having a big function in the "predator sense" for fairies. But I can be totally mistaken, it wouldn't be the first time.

Doesn't really matter to me either way, as far as antennas go.

I just think they're cute.

Does this mean EVERY pred has been bitten by a radioactive spider?

...

...no?