What is the best tactical and strategic offense against...

Raveolution wrote:

I'm wondering... what would it take to blanket a large section of Felarya with a total anti-magic field for, say, a month?

I'm thinking it would take Epic magic, on a scale far beyond what's feasible for even the average "really damn powerful" archmage. Unless you, and all your closest friends, are practically Gods of Magic (like Gods of Rock, only with spells)... it just isn't going to happen.

And even if you managed to pull something like that off, it's almost certain to attract the kind of attention you don't want. Ie, the Guardians.

Such a thing would also be possible through dimensional means (by creating a dimensional space where magical energy can not exist), but you run into a lot of the same problems. Eventually, a Guardian is going to take notice, and it will probably be sooner rather than later.

Additionally, given Felarya's dimensional instability, it would probably be very difficult to get an n-dimensional space like that to last for any significant length of time. Keeping it intact for an hour would be a monumental feat, let alone an entire month.

One could always build a Magic Sucking Obelisk of Doom to null the eldritch energies in an area. Just make sure that it has a strong foundation, as if Vivian finds it one can only expect the damage caused otherwise.

Malahite wrote:

One could always build a Magic Sucking Obelisk of Doom to null the eldritch energies in an area. Just make sure that it has a strong foundation, as if Vivian finds it one can only expect the damage caused otherwise.

How very inefficient of you, Malahite. If you're going to build a Magic Sucking Obelisk of Doom, at least have the decency to build a proper relic superweapon connected to it, so you can do something with all of that magical energy you siphon. Of course, that still might not be the optimal solution, in certain cases involving Vivian...

"Charging apocalypse cannon in 5... 4... 3..."
"Sir, we have... what appears to be a giant pair of breasts..? They're inbound, and moving fast."
"Hold your position, men. ... 2... Onnnnnnnn-ooooooooh... jiggly..."
One destroyed superweapon and a large meal later, Vivian goes off to find a place to rest and digest.

If you're wearing anti-magic armor (which the Crimson Maidens already have), can dispel all magic on one contiguous target (one predator's body, for instance) and have a railgun repeater (which would have almost infinite ammo since a pebble becomes a superuberbullet from hell[tm])... what's left that's going to bother you in Felarya?

Raveolution wrote:

If you're wearing anti-magic armor (which the Crimson Maidens already have), can dispel all magic on one contiguous target (one predator's body, for instance) and have a railgun repeater (which would have almost infinite ammo since a pebble becomes a superuberbullet from hell[tm])... what's left that's going to bother you in Felarya?

The problem with the anti-magic armor it protects you only against spell affecting you directly but not your surrounding (Crimson maiden may use her flame to burn the air around you) and there is spell able to pierce anti-armor magic, and it won't protect you able a simple rock a predator throw you or a physical attack

And the railgun is cool but very noisy and can overheat faster than a normal weapon, and you can not move why you shoot which make you vulnerable to any surprise attack or high range attack.

I think the best way to avoid getting eaten is to dont apeal to look tasty. Smell bad or look bad and bingo

Example
Roll around in something most nasty that would make you puke that give off a fowl smell.

Sure, take the coward's way out.

Listen. The trick is to understand your enemy. Better yet, know the enemy's abilities better than they do. Many of the "spellcasters" of Felarya simply use traditional methods in magic, rarely understanding the true subtleties of the energies they are wielding, and the effects on the area around them. Knowing their own moves better than them can be achieved through a keen sense of both the physical and astral, as well as fast thinking and planning. After that, it is a simple matter of developing a counter-strategy, usually by countering the enemy's methods with opposing energies, or manipulating their own spells.

Knowledge is power, friends. Also, a railgun is good, but I'd go with a traditional rocket-launcher, myself. Armor-piercing, of course.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Sure, take the coward's way out.

Listen. The trick is to understand your enemy. Better yet, know the enemy's abilities better than they do. Many of the "spellcasters" of Felarya simply use traditional methods in magic, rarely understanding the true subtleties of the energies they are wielding, and the effects on the area around them. Knowing their own moves better than them can be achieved through a keen sense of both the physical and astral, as well as fast thinking and planning. After that, it is a simple matter of developing a counter-strategy, usually by countering the enemy's methods with opposing energies, or manipulating their own spells.

Knowledge is power, friends. Also, a railgun is good, but I'd go with a traditional rocket-launcher, myself. Armor-piercing, of course.

The trick is first know yourself better and after try to understand your ennemy. Rade apply correctly he knows alone he cannot win alone against the predators so he choose a solution more intelligent.


this is a best example of courage

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Rade apply correctly he knows alone he cannot win alone against the predators so he choose a solution more intelligent.

A better wording would be that he could not win alone with materials available to him.

Heck, give a Neera the Infinity Gauntlet and I'd give it good odds against the Guardians. Note the plural.

Thank you thank you ^_^
I can live with being a coward

Im more of a defensive person in the heart of battle

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

The problem with the anti-magic armor it protects you only against spell affecting you directly

Which wipes out the chance of one of those annoying shrink spells... or Vivian's dark magic...

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but not your surrounding (Crimson maiden may use her flame to burn the air around you)

But if you can cast anti-magic on her then she's not gonna be able to do that.

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and there is spell able to pierce anti-armor magic, and it won't protect you able a simple rock a predator throw you or a physical attack

What spell is that which can pierce anti-magic?
And yeah, tail-whacking is not magical, or fun. It also rarely ends with an edible meal for the pred; so if everyone is walking around in anti-magic and has a cancel magic spell available... it could mean starvation. Or a change in diets. Well, that's not "preds leaving you alone" - acknowledged - but at least we're making headway here about not getting eaten?

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And the railgun is cool but very noisy and can overheat faster than a normal weapon, and you can not move why you shoot which make you vulnerable to any surprise attack or high range attack.

Why would you have to stop to fire?

Raveolution wrote:

Why would you have to stop to fire?

Stereotypical Railgun is portrayed as a large clunky weapon with a generator of some sort needed [often large] that makes you nigh-immobile unless on a very good firing platform.

Whether one could advance tech enough to get around that is a different matter.

Raveolution wrote:

Which wipes out the chance of one of those annoying shrink spells... or Vivian's dark magic...

Not really it will depend on the type of magic and the anti-magic you use, for your case is an armor you will resist to any spell affecting you directly but not the area where you are. For example you fall on trap and the trap shrink you will be shrink because it's the trap which is affecting not you, your magical defense is useless here.

And for Vivian I have some doubt, because she is not a beginner The problem depending on the nature of the illusion you can be affected no matter your magical resistance. If she use her magic to create mirage your magical resistance won't help you.

Some shrinking abilities are not all magic.

Raveolution wrote:

But if you can cast anti-magic on her then she's not gonna be able to do that.

You forget her armor which reflect magic, and the problem the anti-magic can be easily counter because it's one of the first thing someone who use his magic in battle learn to deal with.

Raveolution wrote:

What spell is that which can pierce anti-magic?
And yeah, tail-whacking is not magical, or fun. It also rarely ends with an edible meal for the pred; so if everyone is walking around in anti-magic and has a cancel magic spell available... it could mean starvation. Or a change in diets. Well, that's not "preds leaving you alone" - acknowledged - but at least we're making headway here about not getting eaten?

The reason why there are armor-piercing ammos.

It exist not one but many type of magic, the anti-magic affecting one magic doesn't necessary work against the other.

To fight a mage you need to possess a strong magic resistance and any good mages know to deal with that.

And until now the predators don't change their diet

Magic is not only danger you meet in Felarya.

Raveolution wrote:

Why would you have to stop to fire?

When a weapon overheat you can not fire with it or you damage it and for the case of the railgun there is a chance it explode to your face.

It's easier to deal an immobile target than a mobile.

Malahite wrote:

Stereotypical Railgun is portrayed as a large clunky weapon with a generator of some sort needed [often large] that makes you nigh-immobile unless on a very good firing platform.

Whether one could advance tech enough to get around that is a different matter.

Without counting to shoot with this kind of weapons you need to be solidly hold in the ground.

Edit: the armors don't prevent to be knocked out.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

Which wipes out the chance of one of those annoying shrink spells... or Vivian's dark magic...

Not really it will depend on the type of magic and the anti-magic you use, for your case is an armor you will resist to any spell affecting you directly but not the area where you are. For example you fall on trap and the trap shrink you will be shrink because it's the trap which is affecting not you, your magical defense is useless here.

And for Vivian I have some doubt, because she is not a beginner The problem depending on the nature of the illusion you can be affected no matter your magical resistance. If she use her magic to create mirage your magical resistance won't help you.

Some shrinking abilities are not all magic.

Yes, which is why the Naxylan dridders would be incredibly dangerous to the Miratans if they met in battle, their shrinking power is in their venom.

As for traps, are you talking about magical traps? Such a thing should fizzle outright.

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You forget her armor which reflect magic, and the problem the anti-magic can be easily counter because it's one of the first thing someone who use his magic in battle learn to deal with.

How is it countered? How do you "dispel" anti-magic? As far as I see it, the question is how powerful is the anti-magic, and how long does it last.

How many magic users have ever managed to cast a spell on an Abyssal Tonorion?

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The reason why there are armor-piercing ammos.

It exist not one but many type of magic, the anti-magic affecting one magic doesn't necessary work against the other.

That depends on the universe you're from. In places like Elder Scrolls, 100% resist magic means no school of magic (destruction, restoration, illusion, etc.) can be used against you. Maybe in other universes 100% resist magic only works against, say, fireballs (which would count in Elder Scrolls as the "resist fire" spell).

For the sake of fun, the pursuit of a challenge, and in light of what you said, I'd say anti-magic in Felarya depends on which class of magic you're countering. But then there's the Tonorion issue - it appears they block all magic. And so do the stomachs of Succubi.

So why can a Succubi's stomach totally block any and all magic, but someone on the outside can't do it?

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To fight a mage you need to possess a strong magic resistance and any good mages know to deal with that.

And until now the predators don't change their diet

A succubus or a Tonorion can make it so that mage totally fails their spell. (As in, once swallowed by a succubus.) How many good mages have gotten their way out of that situation?

My approach is to find out how the succubi's stomachs stop all magic........... and duplicate the effect on the outside.

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Magic is not only danger you meet in Felarya.

Nope, the odd tail whack is but one of a bunch of other things that can shorten one's lifespan. Eisners are certainly just another one of many.

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When a weapon overheat you can not fire with it or you damage it and for the case of the railgun there is a chance it explode to your face.

It's easier to deal an immobile target than a mobile.

What if you have the kind in Quake 2 or the movie "Eraser"?



Basically, I'm not understanding why some creatures in Felarya can totally cancel out magic, in some cases all magic in their vicinity, but it's impossible otherwise. Then again I am a pastor of the church of reverse engineering.

Raveolution wrote:

As for traps, are you talking about magical traps? Such a thing should fizzle outright.

Any traps, even the classical one since the moment you are trapped.

Raveolution wrote:

How is it countered? How do you "dispel" anti-magic? As far as I see it, the question is how powerful is the anti-magic, and how long does it last.

Even anti-magic has flaws

You don't know the spell "Mass Dispel" from World of Warcraft, the spell able to dispel anything. The next extension Wrath of the Litch King the warlocks can learn a spell able to pierce any kind of magical defense and immunity.

This two spells exist to counter the ultimate spell of the paladin "Divine Shiell", when he cast this spell he is immune to both magical and physical attack.

The anti-magic can be countered because it exists many system to counter that. The attack evolve faster than the defense because it's the attack which create the defense if there is no attack there is no defense.

Raveolution wrote:

How many magic users have ever managed to cast a spell on an Abyssal Tonorion?

The question will be how many normal people survive to an encounter with an abyssal Tonorion.

You can defeat an Abyssal Tonorion in the only condition you don't cast spell on it, if the mage use his magic to move a big rock to crush it with it's okay.

Raveolution wrote:

That depends on the universe you're from. In places like Elder Scrolls, 100% resist magic means no school of magic (destruction, restoration, illusion, etc.) can be used against you. Maybe in other universes 100% resist magic only works against, say, fireballs (which would count in Elder Scrolls as the "resist fire" spell).

As I said it's work only efficient if you are attacked directly by spells, if a mage want to nuke you will be protected but If the mage use his magic in other ways than that your magical protection is useless. The mage can still teleport himself, summon a monster to attack you , clone itself , transform into a creature who does non magical attack or more simple if the mage use spell to throw a simple object on your face.

In Elder Scrolls you can give you 100% of resist magic but a mage can give it a 100% against physical damage too. And if I remember depending where you are, your protection can be affected because there are people who can be god in their own dimension.

Raveolution wrote:

For the sake of fun, the pursuit of a challenge, and in light of what you said, I'd say anti-magic in Felarya depends on which class of magic you're countering. But then there's the Tonorion issue - it appears they block all magic. And so do the stomachs of Succubi.

So why can a Succubi's stomach totally block any and all magic, but someone on the outside can't do it?

Because it's two different cases, for the succubi you can not use magic only if you are trapped inside the stomach but oustide it's possible. For a Tonorion doesn't work in the same way, if only if you try to attack him by casting fireball it won't work but but if you use your magic to attack it with normal objects it's ok.

Raveolution wrote:

What if you have the kind in Quake 2 or the movie "Eraser"?

The version of the "Eraser" has never been tested against a felaryan predators at the first sight it doesn't have an important firepower contrary to the othe kind of railgun I see in other fiction.

It's the case in Quake, the railgun require a lot of precision and better mastery from his owner because it possess a cooldown. A weapon with a great firepower overheat faster and you can do a, it require a lot of precision and a good mastery. It's efficient if only you don't miss your target, in place where the opponents can hide everywhere and are in general stelthier and faster than you, and have a better knowledge of the envirronment. Your railgun won't be more efficient than a simple gun.

Raveolution wrote:

Basically, I'm not understanding why some creatures in Felarya can totally cancel out magic, in some cases all magic in their vicinity, but it's impossible otherwise. Then again I am a pastor of the church of reverse engineering.

If you cancel in 100% the magic in Felarya you die from disease and old age because the effects of the soil are magic too

So any creature inside Felarya can be affected by magic they can developp a resistance to magic but in different levels.

About the Anti-Magic Debate:

1) It stops all magic, end. The issue is not it stops the magic, the issue is it makes an area where Magic simply does not go. Imagine living magic. Magic that flows everywhere, through the rocks and trees and humans. Now imagine a sphere where the Magic goes "The hell with this" and dives around it. That's what you have. The magic will not enter that place. You are correct in that you can beat it, but simply casting a magic fireball nearby may not be enough to do it. Are the flames magical, or only the original fireball before it exploded? You cannot summon a wall of Iron inside it, but you could summon one a few dozen meters up. And you most certainly can't access magic yourself while inside an Anti-Magic shell.

2) Where does it stop counting as magic and begin counting as something else? Do you create a lightning bolt out of magical energy, or is it more energy sucked from the environment to be flung forward and left to its own devices from there? The former would have "Magic Resistance 100%" work on it. The later would not, as there you're just being hit by energy.

3) I would not use game mechanics to describe Anti-Magic, or anything in general. Game mechanics are horrid for describing things. Why? One game system, then one word: "D&D, Wish". Have fun. You also then start getting things like games are meant for balance, not fluff-following. For instance, in Warhammer 40K you have a 1-in-6 chance, as a baseline human, to survive a direct hit from a shot in novels capable of turning a bunker into a bubbling pool. Then there's the Starcraft Megameter Marine Calcs that feature Marines larger then planetoids firing FTL weapons. If you have a cutscene depicting its use, a fluff excerpt, or nothing beyond Game mechanics to work on you can use such. Also, WoW is to WC canon what many Dune fans consider KJA's works.

4) D&D "100% Magic Resistance" as of late 2nd Edition only applied to the magic itself. Immunity to disintegrate, magic missile, etc, but not the fire damage of a Fireball.

Malahite wrote:

1) It stops all magic, end. The issue is not it stops the magic, the issue is it makes an area where Magic simply does not go. Imagine living magic. Magic that flows everywhere, through the rocks and trees and humans. Now imagine a sphere where the Magic goes "The hell with this" and dives around it. That's what you have. The magic will not enter that place. You are correct in that you can beat it, but simply casting a magic fireball nearby may not be enough to do it. Are the flames magical, or only the original fireball before it exploded? You cannot summon a wall of Iron inside it, but you could summon one a few dozen meters up. And you most certainly can't access magic yourself while inside an Anti-Magic shell.

2) Where does it stop counting as magic and begin counting as something else? Do you create a lightning bolt out of magical energy, or is it more energy sucked from the environment to be flung forward and left to its own devices from there? The former would have "Magic Resistance 100%" work on it. The later would not, as there you're just being hit by energy.

I completely agree with you about that

Malahite wrote:

3) I would not use game mechanics to describe Anti-Magic, or anything in general. Game mechanics are horrid for describing things. Why? One game system, then one word: "D&D, Wish". Have fun. You also then start getting things like games are meant for balance, not fluff-following. For instance, in Warhammer 40K you have a 1-in-6 chance, as a baseline human, to survive a direct hit from a shot in novels capable of turning a bunker into a bubbling pool. Then there's the Starcraft Megameter Marine Calcs that feature Marines larger then planetoids firing FTL weapons. If you have a cutscene depicting its use, a fluff excerpt, or nothing beyond Game mechanics to work on you can use such. Also, WoW is to WC canon what many Dune fans consider KJA's works.

It will depend how you play if you focuse mostly on PVE Player Versus Environnment, I agree with you because you fight a simple IA and play an existing scenarios. But the things change when we deal PVP, Player Versus Player it's another experience the situations can vary a lot because your opponent can improvise a new situation.

Edit: the only game I know which possess an excellent machanic to describe magic and anti-magic, the game card Magic: The Gathering.

Malahite wrote:

4) D&D "100% Magic Resistance" as of late 2nd Edition only applied to the magic itself. Immunity to disintegrate, magic missile, etc, but not the fire damage of a Fireball.

It follows the same logic of the physical protection, an armor can resist to violent hit but doesn't protect from shock.

How about sending in a few dozen Landmaster tanks?

MegaDan5 wrote:

How about sending in a few dozen Landmaster tanks?

Hover Tank with unknown yields on weapon. Could play hell, could be an annoyance (Though considering it's a Tank-mounted weapon, I assume the later).

Combine 'em with Arwings and Wolfens. You'd dominate.

MegaDan5 wrote:

How about sending in a few dozen Landmaster tanks?

I prefer a hovertank. An underground attack can immobilize a non-hovertank much easier than a hovertank.

As a matter of fact I don't favor ground based weapons at all in Felarya. I prefer air convoys. There are harpies, elementals and fairies who can attack those, but forget having to ALSO deal with nagas, many insects, dridders, and especially dryads. You can target and hit the terrestrials from far, far above.

Raveolution wrote:

I prefer a hovertank. An underground attack can immobilize a non-hovertank much easier than a hovertank.

If a little ditch slowed you down, you aren't using A big enough tank (Yes, that thing in the background is on treads).

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There are harpies,[ elementals and fairies who can attack those,

Provided they slow down. Beyond that, the only way these could be countered by such critters is a Fairy village making a massive wall of force.

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but forget having to ALSO deal with nagas, many insects, dridders, and especially dryads. You can target and hit the terrestrials from far, far above.

Aye, but you cannot claim said land afterwards. Doesn't do you any good if you can't reap the spoils of war.

Has anyone thought of this yet?

Heartless.

These little suckers in all their forms.

While we're at it, let's throw in some Nobodies and Tonberries.


Just drop about one hundred on a Naga or a human city like Negav and pray they don't find the Heart of Felarya.

Heartless are individually weak though. I think you kill a hundred in the very first level of the first KH when just attempting to clear a town of a minor infection.

Now, add a few more zeroes to the numbers, and Felarya starts to run into trouble. Maybe.

Malahite wrote:

Heartless are individually weak though. I think you kill a hundred in the very first level of the first KH when just attempting to clear a town of a minor infection.

Now, add a few more zeroes to the numbers, and Felarya starts to run into trouble. Maybe.

The heartless are darkness like creature as darkness elemental, so it will create a Déméchrelle bis or a predator with a keyblade will appear