problems with how humans are portrayed.

why is it that in felarya, humans, are always portrayed as COMPLETELY incompatent, with absoutely no abilities worth crap at all? I know felarya is all about preds eating people, but come on. just cuz most people who come to felarya don't intend to and are unprepared, does NOT mean that there have NEVER been compatent, potentially pred killing powerful humans, nekos and elves to ever come here and adventure. nor does it mean that none ever WILL. humans never accept the staus quo, and will always seek growth in power and other ways. magic is something that humans, who seek to learn everything, should be better at then preds, just cuz they bother actually studying and practicing. so why is it that no human mage who ever comes to felarya a complete, incompatent failure? magic is one of the most powerful forces around in felarya, so why is it rediuced to near uselessness unless you enjoy eating people?

I actually suggest you look around here a but more and talk to some people (Try getting on ventrilo), since many people here share those views and have worked out quite a few things with that.
Here's one example; https://felarya.forumotion.com/t2764-expanding-refining-the-isolon-fist

http://rcs619.deviantart.com/art/Just-another-day-on-the-job-212686442

Im actually going to tack my story "Just Another Day on the Job" onto this thread. It shows the principles I outlined in the Isolon Fist thread put into practice. It would be quite easy to implement these princples, to give Negav a competant, effective defense (as well as set the standard that preds are able to be killed without DBZ-esque powers), without upsetting the balance of the setting.

But yeah, preds are perfectly killable. It just takes extremely strong magic and/or military-grade weapons, neither of which a great majority of people have easy access too. Good tactics definately help too.

yes, but in the vast, vast, VAST majority of stories, I have yet to see a compatent, magically powerful adventurer group that can reliably take down a pred. not a one. and not a isolon fist, but the ADVENTURERS, who come here, should also have in their number powerful experienced groups, but not a one. I plan on making such a one in my story, just to have at least one.

TryMeIke wrote:

yes, but in the vast, vast, VAST majority of stories, I have yet to see a compatent, magically powerful adventurer group that can reliably take down a pred. not a one. and not a isolon fist, but the ADVENTURERS, who come here, should also have in their number powerful experienced groups, but not a one. I plan on making such a one in my story, just to have at least one.

...Because the average person couldn't take on a pred.

The only reason the Isolon Fist can is because they have highly-trained battlemages, and soldiers equipped with military-grade offworld weapons.

The Delurans and Miritans could take on preds, since they are both military expeditions.

Regular adventurers wouldn't. The only guns they'd have access to are pistols, shotguns and hunting rifles, and even a skilled, average mage is nowhere near the level of an Isolon Fist Battlemage.

The best defense for average adventurers, and groups is stealth. You pay attention to your surroundings, you move smart, and you hide and stay hidden when a predator is around. Knowledge and survival tactics are going to be much more useful to most adventurers and explorers than powerful weapons and magic.

you read what I said about being tired of the incompatiance of said tactics you stated just now, stealth and other such? just cuz MOST mages and adventurers are not able to do such things, does not mean ALL such mages are in that level of power. the magicrats, for example, are more powerful then the fists, and who says a powerful, like legendary mage from another world is not on the same level as them, and cannot come to felarya for reasons of their own?

rcs619 wrote:

-snip-

Don't forget the various mercenary groups. They're sanctioned, somewhat.

In any case, I think that there might be sanctioned adventure groups that have access t military grade weapons.

But that's only tech. Magic comes into it. I've got a few weapon ideas here that would be easily available to normal adventures.

TryMeIke wrote:

-snip-

Nothing says they can't, but if you write about that it's very hard to get right.

The problem here is it is a fine balance, in most stories the pendulum swings in favour of the predators, regardless of what the humans may have at their disposal. However it is far too easy to make it swing the other way; it is a trap all too easy to fall into. In many ways Felarya is about balance as much as it is about vore.

Indeed it is:

Karbo wrote:

However, as I see it, Felarya is a sort of balancing act.
On one hand, I don't want people to feel hatred for those predators in my work, who can be genuinely kind and good-hearted characters. But at the same time, the point is not to have Felarya be nothing but a fast food restaurant for these predators, with humans simply being helplessly fed to them by the hundreds. Humans and other prey races know how to fight back and don't go down without a fight.
So, on one side you have those cute and sexy predators looking for a nice meal, and on the other, humans and other prey species trying to escape this fate, living adventures in this wild and untamed land, and reaping the fabulous rewards and treasures Felarya has to offer. And sometimes building strange friendships along the way with the "other side". ^_^

In any case, predators are not the biggest threat to humans. They are a big one, but predators aren't everywhere. the jungle isn't crawling with them. People tend to write about them though since it's far easier to relate to something that actually has a human part, rather than a Kensha beast which is just an animal.

TryMeIke wrote:

you read what I said about being tired of the incompatiance of said tactics you stated just now, stealth and other such? just cuz MOST mages and adventurers are not able to do such things, does not mean ALL such mages are in that level of power. the magicrats, for example, are more powerful then the fists, and who says a powerful, like legendary mage from another world is not on the same level as them, and cannot come to felarya for reasons of their own?

Stealth is a perfectly viable tactic. You just need to know the area, know the threats, and know how to avoid or keep hidden from them.

Hell, hire a Neko, Inu or Harpy while you're in Negav to act as a guide. Their heightened senses would help warn you about predators beyond what a human would be able to sense.

You don't NEED to be a super-powerful mage to survive in the jungle. You just need to be smart.

You talk about the need for more powerful mages. I say, there's a need for more competant, inventive, average people. Average people overcoming a problem is far more interesting than a mage magic'ing his way out of it.

Quote :

The problem here is it is a fine balance, in most stories the pendulum swings in favour of the predators, regardless of what the humans may have at their disposal. However it is far too easy to make it swing the other way; it is a trap all too easy to fall into. In many ways Felarya is about balance as much as it is about vore.

Indeed. Believable stories are all about balance. Felarya is a dangerous world for both preds and humans.

Quote :

Don't forget the various mercenary groups. They're sanctioned, somewhat.

In any case, I think that there might be sanctioned adventure groups that have access t military grade weapons.

Yeah, I was lumping in the mercs with the "select groups" who have access to military-grade weapons.

The sanctioned adventurers is an interesting idea. Maybe they just have to pay a tax/tribute to Negav to keep those weapon rights.

JUST TELLING YA THAT FELARYA IS A FICTITIOUS WORLD AND THUS ANYHING THAT IS CALLED FICTION AND FIT IN THE WORLD CAN HAPPEN

thank you

Krisexy26 wrote:

JUST TELLING YA THAT FELARYA IS A FICTITIOUS WORLD AND THUS ANYHING THAT IS CALLED FICTION AND FIT IN THE WORLD CAN HAPPEN

thank you

Back under your bridge for you, wait for the 3 billy goats to cross.

Anyways there are a lot of humans who are very powerful in Felarya, the Isolon fist, mercs, and more, they just don't get put into the spotlight, since many people who come here like vore and would rather see the pred succeed in their stories, if you want to see the humans getting the upper hand, then write stories of a human or neko using their wits to overcome their foe.

thank you, I intend to do just that.

Prof.Nekko wrote:

Krisexy26 wrote:

JUST TELLING YA THAT FELARYA IS A FICTITIOUS WORLD AND THUS ANYHING THAT IS CALLED FICTION AND FIT IN THE WORLD CAN HAPPEN

thank you

Back under your bridge for you, wait for the 3 billy goats to cross.

Anyways there are a lot of humans who are very powerful in Felarya, the Isolon fist, mercs, and more, they just don't get put into the spotlight, since many people who come here like vore and would rather see the pred succeed in their stories, if you want to see the humans getting the upper hand, then write stories of a human or neko using their wits to overcome their foe.

There are also groups like the people of Chiotia City, who survive through being diplomatic with the local predators. They don't have any fancy guns, or super-powered mages... They just can provide a service that the local preds like, and are willing to accept in exchange for leaving them in peace. I mean, Sea Krait Nagas actively come to Chiotia City seeking help from the blacksmiths who live there.

Prof.Nekko wrote:

Krisexy26 wrote:

JUST TELLING YA THAT FELARYA IS A FICTITIOUS WORLD AND THUS ANYHING THAT IS CALLED FICTION AND FIT IN THE WORLD CAN HAPPEN

thank you

Back under your bridge for you, wait for the 3 billy goats to cross.

Yummy naughty kitty professor. Me ogre like eating naughty kitty for being too smart.

Prof.Nekko wrote:

Anyways there are a lot of humans who are very powerful in Felarya, the Isolon fist, mercs, and more, they just don't get put into the spotlight, since many people who come here like vore and would rather see the pred succeed in their stories, if you want to see the humans getting the upper hand, then write stories of a human or neko using their wits to overcome their foe.

TryMeIke wrote:

thank you, I intend to do just that.

I thought you already had, but just in case, there's some things about overcoming challenges you need to know.
-Overcoming a challenge through sheer brutality and firepower isn't being competent. It can be very cathartic, however; keep that in mind.
-Overcoming a challenge through wits requires both parts to bring wits to the table. Unless both the good guys and the bad guys (or in this case, predators and adventurers) are smart, then there was no challenge, and no tension. That's why Die Hard and 24 are so popular. Even predators can be clever- they're illiterate and they haven't watched Die Hard, but they can be as cunning as any illiterate, uncultured wild fox or coyote can be.

Those are my two cents. As for your initial point...

TryMeIke wrote:

why is it that in felarya, humans, are always portrayed as COMPLETELY incompatent, with absoutely no abilities worth crap at all? I know felarya is all about preds eating people, but come on. just cuz most people who come to felarya don't intend to and are unprepared, does NOT mean that there have NEVER been compatent, potentially pred killing powerful humans, nekos and elves to ever come here and adventure. nor does it mean that none ever WILL. humans never accept the staus quo, and will always seek growth in power and other ways. magic is something that humans, who seek to learn everything, should be better at then preds, just cuz they bother actually studying and practicing. so why is it that no human mage who ever comes to felarya a complete, incompatent failure? magic is one of the most powerful forces around in felarya, so why is it rediuced to near uselessness unless you enjoy eating people?

Because that's what the people whose stories you read care to write about- even then, that's not always the case. I think I understand your frustration, but if what you're looking for are stories that don't have incompetent people, maybe you should vary the writers you read a little.

That said, having no abilities worth crap is not the same as being incompetent, Ike, and I hope you understand that. Competence is the ability to carry your objectives to fruition.

TryMeIke wrote:

yes, but in the vast, vast, VAST majority of stories, I have yet to see a compatent, magically powerful adventurer group that can reliably take down a pred. not a one. and not a isolon fist, but the ADVENTURERS, who come here, should also have in their number powerful experienced groups, but not a one. I plan on making such a one in my story, just to have at least one.

I do wonder what kind of stories you've been reading... Examples of prey bringing down preds immediately spring to mind in stories by Asuroth or Aethernavale, for example. (Not to mention timing2's description of tomthumbs using their wits to destroy a tribe of nekos that had been preying on them.) And to top it all, they're well-written, believable and interesting.

As the others have said, bear in mind too that most predators are intelligent, and they're on their own territory. They're not just giants; they have sharper senses and a whole life of practice as well as their wits. In a vast majority of cases, a confrontational encounter between a predator and smaller species is going to result in the predator coming out on top - not least because only very stupid adventurers are going to be looking to encounter a pred, or doing anything else than trying their utmost to avoid such an encounter.

Quote :

As the others have said, bear in mind too that most predators are intelligent, and they're on their own territory. They're not just giants; they have sharper senses and a whole life of practice as well as their wits. In a vast majority of cases, a confrontational encounter between a predator and smaller species is going to result in the predator coming out on top - not least because only very stupid adventurers are going to be looking to encounter a pred, or doing anything else than trying their utmost to avoid such an encounter.

Indeed, it would be pretty unwise to just go charging straight towards a predator in its home territory. That would be suicide most of the time.

If you look at Pred vs Human, it actually balances out fairly well.

Pred:
+ Very large
+ Very Strong
+ Very Fast (thanks, in part, to their large size)
+ Generally heightened senses, with some special senses by species
- Movement can be restricted, thanks to their large size
- They have no technology, and usually only simple tools at best
- They have no formal education, and only know what they have experienced, or been taught by friends/family

Human (Negavian, or an adventurer originating from Negav):
+ Can be very elusive, thanks to their small size, and lots of hiding places in the jungle
+ Has access to technology, ranging from suvival tools, to weapons
+ Has access to formal education, both traditional and magical
+ Has access to a wealth of knowledge that has been built up by explorers that have come before them
- Less developed senses than a pred
- Small size makes them comparably slower to a pred

Really, the best assets a human has are information, and technology. If a human researches the jungle, its threats, and the areas he's going to be going through, he is going to have a big advantage. Same with if he packs the right tools. Even something as simple as a map, maybe one with known pred territories or other dangers marked on it, would be a great tool.

The best thing a human can do to survive, is to make good use of its advantages. A human is small, a human is elusive as long as he's not caught by suprise, out in the open, and a human has tools, and knowledge at his disposal that a pred simply does not. There's also the possibility of hiring a Neko, Inu or Harpy as a guide before you leave Negav. Having someone with heightened senses, or the ability to fly and see potential threats from the air would make it many times more difficult for a pred to sneak up on you.

I think a great many of the sensless human deaths in the jungle are from (not counting bad writing), people not taking the time to prepare properly. They don't do the research, they underestimate the dangers, and they don't pack the right equipment.

that just motivates me to write a story about adventurers who DO prepare properly, just for a change of pace.

Dude, there are plenty of those, and I am writing them. You're just going on baseless conjectures and not doing any proper research.

what, I can't add some myself? what's with this website and bashing people?

TryMeIke wrote:

what, I can't add some myself? what's with this website and bashing people?

Although his post was directly after yours, it wasn't about you. If it was, he would have quoted you, like I did. It's all good bro.

ah, thanks. ^^; glad to hear that. also, I am honored to be talked to by someone as renowned as you silent eric.

why is silent-eric praised? :/

no fair.

I really look up to him. that's all.

TryMeIke wrote:

ah, thanks. ^^; glad to hear that. also, I am honored to be talked to by someone as renowned as you silent eric.

Oh man. I'm renowned?! That's awesome! Alright, this thread is now about me.

I have always seen one of the main points of Felarya to be the misunderstanding between humans and preds. Both sides believe the other to be unintelligent. By which I mean not sentient.

It really is a question of point of view when it comes to the stories. If it is from the point of view of a pred, and it usually is, then humans will seem more stupid. This is for two reasons. First, humans are not intelligent. They are food. At least according to the pred's point of view. Second, this is a human that comes into view of the pred. These humans underestimate predators and think they can fight them, or outwit them, or out run them. They can't, usually.

A story about a great adventurer would be boring, seeing as though the truly smart humans avoid predators and don't deal with them at all. That means no conflict. So although people like this exist, they aren't the focus of stories because they go into the jungle, avoid danger entirely, and take easy money back.