Humans Vs. Man-eaters

Ilceren wrote:

ChristianBethel wrote:

..................

You have completely ignored my advice, didn't you? A post consisting of only suspension points adds nothing to a discussion. Please avoid them in the future, or I'll have to start deleting them.

ChristianBethel wrote:

On that note, I notice that the predators of Earth are "insentient" while the predators of Felarya are.

And what of the predators that devour humans solely for the purpose of being cruel, such as Menyssan, Arale, or Hiral? Surely their reasons for the consumption of sentient life are relatively unfounded.

Not really. We humans are also predators, and we are sentient, and sapient. Do you feel sad for the cow that has been killed so you could have that steak on your plate? Do you feel pity for the pork that had been killed by letting him bleed out to death so we could prepare a lot of things out of his meat? You don't. Mainly because you don't see how they are killed, nor wish to think about it. Likewise, predators just see people, plop them in their mouths and swallow them. They don't know how do they die in their stomachs, nor they wish to.

As for those three predators you mention, only one of them goes over the top with her meals, and that one is Menyssan. The other two just feed when they are hungry, even though they can be cruel with their food in the process. Everyone behaves differently at the table, so it's not really surprising that predators act differently when hunting too. Not everyone can be a role model where eating is concerned.

This is a good point that I think a lot of people who glance at Felarya's predators don't realize. That a lot of them are true carnivore humanoids. They don't want to know where their meal comes from as a long as it's tasy and filling. A smaller percentage of them likely use goofy or even antagonistic behavior due to covering up the guilt the secretly feel about it.

Well Ilce I am a vegetarian so I do care quite a bit about where stuff comes from and the torture animals go through. But, as you said. Felarya is different from Earth. Not just different, but TOTALLY different. We cannot compare humans, who are the dominant predator on Earth, to Felaryan predators. As our morals are not the same. The only thing I will say, if a cow opened up its mouth and talked to me, I would not kill it, even if I was a farmer who slaughtered them normally. O_o;;

ChristianBethel wrote:

I guess you're right, Nyaha. And I can think of a perfect example: Marsha. She mentions in her story that she only eats to survive, she doesn't stuff herself, and she's "not mean about it." I suppose I can't argue with indoctrination. *sigh* When you mention this debate like this, it makes sense. I surmise that I must look at the predator's point of view as well. Humans follow the same path, as well as the top predators of this world. Obviously those predators are looked down upon as well for their man eating practices but a lion, tiger, or bear is told that eating humans is acceptable. On that note, I notice that the predators of Earth are "insentient" while the predators of Felarya are.

And what of the predators that devour humans solely for the purpose of being cruel, such as Menyssan, Arale, or Hiral? Surely their reasons for the consumption of sentient life are relatively unfounded.

I suppose it would shock you to learn that human beings were once very much the way Felaryan predators are now. We certainly didn't have all the advanced technology, and high morality compass when our ancestors first came down from the trees and learned to walk upright. What matters to any life form is the same thing that has always mattered - Survival. Instincts in living things are always geared towards the survival of self. We all strive to be the fittest, because the fittest survives the best. Once survival is secured, such as the case with humans, the mind begins to ponder new questions, new problems, and how to try and solve them. This is how humans broadened their mind, where animals have not. it is where things like morality, empathy, and even compassion or the desire for vengeance comes from. When survival becomes less of an issue, more things fill the void.

As for menyssan, Arale, and Hiral, as I said, Demons and Succubi are a different kettle of fish. They are immortal, and thus survival is MUCH less of a concern for them. They are also not going to die of old age, disease or defects, thus they have had literally ages of time to think, plan and solve problems. There upbringing revolves around punishing and torturing the souls of evil dead beings. That is their purpose, no different than any other demon.

Darkstorm Zero wrote:

As for menyssan, Arale, and Hiral, as I said, Demons and Succubi are a different kettle of fish. They are immortal, and thus survival is MUCH less of a concern for them. They are also not going to die of old age, disease or defects, thus they have had literally ages of time to think, plan and solve problems. There upbringing revolves around punishing and torturing the souls of evil dead beings. That is their purpose, no different than any other demon.

This makes sense. What would they do were they to encounter a LIVING human?

ChristianBethel wrote:

This makes sense. What would they do were they to encounter a LIVING human?

One would assume they would not discern the difference. As stated, their purpose is to literally torture and absorb. In one of El Portero's stores you mentioned, one particular evil scientist, still living, perished at Mennysan's discretion.

I don't think we're supposed to consider them as morally right. Predators are just kind of aloof to the concept of life being precious, or at least they don't share a human view. I like to see them and their stories as documentaries into their lives, instead of good vs. evil stories.

Hardly. The thorough scrutinization of these creatures is required. There must be some logical explanation for their dietary tendencies. It's as if you all are saying "every large being on Felarya is supposed to consume smaller forms of life", which is clearly specious. Take a look at Fiona. She doesn't consume humans at all, nor does Kai, Anna (relatively speaking), or Jade. Sure, you could argue that the majority of these ladies do not eat humans due to the fact of them being raised by humans from infancy, but Jade is an exception. She was raised to eat humans and she did so until she was horrified at the carnage she caused in that village. My point is, you say predators are TAUGHT to eat us. What about the ones that don't?

ChristianBethel wrote:

Hardly. The thorough scrutinization of these creatures is required. There must be some logical explanation for their dietary tendencies. It's as if you all are saying "every large being on Felarya is supposed to consume smaller forms of life", which is clearly specious. Take a look at Fiona. She doesn't consume humans at all, nor does Kai, Anna (relatively speaking), or Jade. Sure, you could argue that the majority of these ladies do not eat humans due to the fact of them being raised by humans from infancy, but Jade is an exception. She was raised to eat humans and she did so until she was horrified at the carnage she caused in that village. My point is, you say predators are TAUGHT to eat us. What about the ones that don't?

Don't forget that many of the predators are raised in a world where everything is out to get you. They don't always get to have lofty lives in the forest..........It's a forest.......not a luxary hotel.

A forest......you know, with trees, muck and where everything eats other things? The predators don't just dally about picking off humans as they please while enjoying the highlife. They are also victims of getting eaten by even bigger predators! That's the reality of the great outdoors.

It's like victims of abuse or children of war, when you'e grown up in an hostile environment, chances are is that you are going to grow up to be exactly like your tormentors. It's because when your life has been nothing about survival, then you just accept that's the way things are.

Victims of bullies often become bullies themselves,
children that abused by their parents, will often become abusive parents.
children of war often become soilders to get revenge on the soilders that ravaged their familes.

Often, what started as merely getting back at your tormentors turns you into the very thing you was surposed to be fighting against. There's even a trope for it. 'He who fights monsters'

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeWhoFightsMonsters

So when a Felaryan has lived all their lives in a dangerous forest where everything is out to eat them, it shoulden't be surprising that they will just think that is how life is, and will learn to accept it. Afterall, they would think it's unfair for someone to come up to them and tell them what they are doing is wrong when everyone else in the forest is doing it.

I must ask, is this scrutinization something you apply to other fictional universes? Or does Felarya get the speical attention for some bizzare reason? I can assure you this theme is not unique to Felarya, in fact there pleanty of stories out there that are even more morally objectible. Half of all fiction is set in crapshack and dystopian worlds, it's nothing new, it's been around since forever....why are you acting like it's new to you?

ChristianBethel wrote:

Hardly. The thorough scrutinization of these creatures is required. There must be some logical explanation for their dietary tendencies. It's as if you all are saying "every large being on Felarya is supposed to consume smaller forms of life", which is clearly specious.

I prefer to think of it as that sentience and sapience don't mean squat in Felarya. All animals eat other animals; if they talked, they wouldn't stop eating other animals. We can stop eating other animals if we choose to, but that's only because we're omnivores descended from opportunistic scavengers. If we were obligate carnivores, we wouldn't even consider vegetarianism.

ChristianBethel wrote:

Take a look at Fiona. She doesn't consume humans at all, nor does Kai, Anna (relatively speaking), or Jade. Sure, you could argue that the majority of these ladies do not eat humans due to the fact of them being raised by humans from infancy, but Jade is an exception. She was raised to eat humans and she did so until she was horrified at the carnage she caused in that village.

Jade wasn't raised to eat humans. There were humans in her planet, and they lived in kingdoms of their own. Punishment for trespassing into giant territory was death. But she was taught they were their mental equals, and probably deserved as much in the way of rights.

Technically, Jade only ate criminals, people dead to rights... until she ate a whole bunch of guys who were just settled in the wrong place at the wrong time. And it sucked for everyone. It kinda makes me wonder sometimes if Jade would allow someone to get eaten if they had done something awfully nasty.

ChristianBethel wrote:

My point is, you say predators are TAUGHT to eat us. What about the ones that don't?

The predators that aren't taught to eat us might be taught (or have learned on their own) to eat everything. Humans aren't the only things in Felarya that can tell stories; there's nagas, centaurs, gerridis, nekos, all sorts of things that are the same size as humans. And they're all delicious (to someone).

While I do find this argument rather pointless I will say one last thing.

Christian,

No one here would support the actions of these predators, nor defend them, if this was occurring in the real world. We would all work to try to rid ourselves of the threat, because it is horrible. That is what Felarya is, a dangerous (horrible to some) world. In the end, this is a work of fiction. With fiction you can find pleasure in whatever you wish because no one is getting hurt.

DarkOne wrote:

I must ask, is this scrutinization something you apply to other fictional universes? Or does Felarya get the speical attention for some bizzare reason? I can assure you this theme is not unique to Felarya, in fact there pleanty of stories out there that are even more morally objectible. Half of all fiction is set in crapshack and dystopian worlds, it's nothing new, it's been around since forever....why are you acting like it's new to you?

Because this IS new to me. This is the first good fantasy/science fiction topic I delved into for a LONG time. The stories I used to read contained vore, however it was solely from an evil creature eating an innocent being, or an evil being being punished. It has nothing to do with the fetish. And it goes back to the indoctrination topic I mentioned earlier. Just because someone is taught to do something or is exposed to a tragic life-changing event does NOT mean they dwell in it and let it shape their lives. Why, Albert Einstein experienced failure in his academics and genocide at the hands of the Nazis. Did he in list in the US Army to take revenge against Hitler for killing his family members and fellow Jews? No. He continued his scientific pursuits and proceeded to develop the "blueprint", so,to speak for the atomic bomb and formulated the theory of relativity.

"Like father, like son".
Don't make me laugh.

shadow17 wrote:

No one here would support the actions of these predators, nor defend them, if this was occurring in the real world. We would all work to try to rid ourselves of the threat, because it is horrible.

Shadow, I must ask you not to put words into other people's mouths. Not everyone shares your beliefs, myself among them.

ChristianBethel wrote:

Just because someone is taught to do something or is exposed to a tragic life-changing event does NOT mean they dwell in it and let it shape their lives. Why, Albert Einstein experienced failure in his academics and genocide at the hands of the Nazis. Did he in list in the US Army to take revenge against Hitler for killing his family members and fellow Jews? No. He continued his scientific pursuits and proceeded to develop the "blueprint", so,to speak for the atomic bomb and formulated the theory of relativity.

He was also praised greatly by his Jewish comrades saying “Ptolemy and Copernicus are but little boys in comparison to Einstein, who shakes the foundations of space and time. Copernicus shook the absolute motionlessness of the earth. Einstein shook absolutism itself. Nothing is ‘real.’” Einstein had problems, but they were far from the severity of a real crap sack world, or Felarya. The predators in Felarya eat to survive from a young age, Einstein experienced bullying as an adult. On top of that, the predators often have no one else to show them a different way, so they do what keeps them alive, and there is nothing wrong with that. Good people get eaten and the predators who do it are not evil. They are simply looking for a way to survive in a world that would rip them to shred given half a chance and a split second.

Well, while I kinda wouldn't expect anything less from someone named "EvilGenius" that is kinda of sick, just to let you know. While I am okay with what these Predators do in a fictional universe I don't see why anyone would "sit back and enjoy it" in the real world. It is like watching a war and laughing at the carnage while families are destroyed. Also, that bit that you quoted? That was basically a direct quote from Karbo that I saw on his page, which is why I said it. He was responding to someones comment.

Also don't respond to me with that passive aggressive hostility. I have a very short fuse and that sets it off like no other.

As for predators being "evil". The definition of evil is, put in simple terms; Knowing something is wrong and doing it anyways. The predators do not know what they are doing is wrong, if they did know it was wrong, most would likely not do it. As they seem to be good people.....minus the eating of people. Again I am not really into vore, and am quite the humanitarian (as well as a vegetarian) so I have a softer approach than others.

Do not worry, you are not the first one with that opinion, and probably won't be the last. I get that monotony day in and day out. You don't need to understand, and i honestly could not care less if you don't, I'd simply rather you voiced your opinions to represent the actual population they dwell in. The fact that it was from Karbo means very little in this context, he's just another human.

I was simply voicing the opinion of what I would believe to be the majority of human beings. At least I hope it is the majority, otherwise I found what is wrong with our planet. While I do not preach fluffy Utopian dreams I do wish for a better and more cooperative world with less violence and death, especially within "civilized" nations.

I know what you were doing, how ever that does not change my request. "No one" means exactly that, even if it is incorrect.

Let's take it easy. As Karbo stated, Felarya did start out as a fetish realm, so surprise surprise it has alot of vore in it. Ironically enough, I only stick around now because I like the immersive lore and I always enjoy seeing how Karbo will expand the universe. So I can understand not taking a liking to the fetish anymore. I like to just ease up and try not to focus on the "giant man-eaters slaughtering people" thing. After all, the world is ripe with story potential and tons of characters that would appeal to everyone, so take your pick.

Shadow, are you saying you agree with me? If so, that's just great. It seems like everyone is just sitting back and intentionally letting this happen.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathWorld

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NatureIsNotNice

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkFantasy

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComedicSociopathy

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiHero

Ilceren: "That said, Bethel, perhaps you should explain yourself a bit more so we could really argue with or against you meaningfully. So far, you seem to have ignored every explanation that people tried to give you. Why do you insist in making this as if you were actually a human being hunted? Why are man-eating giants so hard to acknowledge as fictional beings? Why can't man-eating giants have their own morale? Do you really have to impose your own beliefs into them? Please explain yourself, your views, your motivations. And please do it in depth, so we can hope to understand."

You know, Ilceren, I really don't know where this comes from. Perhaps it is my hatred of the "eat or be eaten" rule, or using the "we all gotta die sometime " loophole (in which a person causes suffering and death to another to extend their own life), or maybe it's I haven't really read the countless stories describing the world of Felarya and the beings in them. I've read Elle's story and Marsha's story, but that's about it, but in some o the stories I HAVE read, innocent people get needlessly killed for the pleasure of others. I've been through experiences like that, I've suffered at the hands of sadism, and I find it intolerable. I just got finished reading an Alvar story by ravana3k where he comes across a human who not only gives him a cordial greeting, but ofers to help him find his way back home even though he's not lost. Alvar just smiles, shrinks him, and eats him. No giving the man a response. Not even a "hello". I completely respect the vore fetish. Nonetheless, I will speak against it when it goes to extremes like this. We should at least view the eating scenarios from the human's point of view instead of just writing stories about predators all the time. If none wish to do this, that is perfectly fine. I will have you that when my stories will be posted, the human point of view will be paramount to the story.

My God...

Lost in Felarya... It's an eye-opener so far...
This may be a stupid and crazy idea, but I think it's time for these countless predatorial ladies need to take a dimensional trip to Earth to see our customs and how everything works...
They need to see our food chains, our histories, our governments, etc. MAYBE, just MAYBE then they will have a proper understanding of our world. It would be only be fair to the humans that were unwillingly brought to Felarya. However, the decision to continue eating us would be up to them. I
just hope they will make the right choice.

Hell, we may just be able to strike a deal with them. Maybe we could send these predator ladies some of our dishes in exchange for permanent safe passages through Felarya. Or maybe we could send our condemned men and women on death row to be eaten as a form of execution. I don't know, LIF is quite enthralling, and it has raised important questions that I must find the answers to.

What do you guys think? Am I making a good point? Or am I just talking out of my ass?

ChristianBethel wrote:

Or maybe we could send our condemned men and women on death row to be eaten as a form of execution.

I knew you would slip at some point or another.

So Mr "There must be Morals in this fictional world!"

Mr "All races should accept each other no matter the circumstances, even if they are from an alien world."

Mr "I don't believe in grey morality."

Seems to believe that that a slow, long, agonizing and painful death would be an ideal form of Capital punishment in Felarya?

You hyprocrite.

So it's fine for us humans encourage the predators to kill for our purposes, but for shame if predators do the very same thing using their own sense of morality?

I knew you would prove yourself to be a hyrocrite, and you have done just that.

Not that I would shame the humans in Felarya for doing such acts, it's just fiction after all. But you were the one who protested against simular acts done by the predators.

DarkOne, easy.

There's no need for a snap judgement like that. Unlike the predators, Chris isn't fictional; he's just trying to come to terms with something, feeling quite strongly, and saying the first thing that comes to mind. It's not gonna be the last time you'll see this.

As for you, Chris, I don't know if it's an eye opener- you don't seem to have changed your mind much. You think they're wrong and must stop, and you've thought that from the beginning. If you're making a point, I'm missing it.

But as to whether they'd care, they wouldn't. If you read the other stuff by Frenchsnack, you'll see that there's a dozen other preds that know just how deep humanity runs. Most don't care. There's one pred who has seen a lotta tech- doesn't care either. Some have never seen any cities, and won't eat people anyway. So to answer one of the questions you surely are posing yourself...

The first answer:

Anyway...

You won't find those answers in this thread. I invite you to interact with the rest of the forum, and practice posing those questions in your head in a more concise, clear, and ordered way. This thread has served its purpose, and many more.

DarkOne wrote:

ChristianBethel wrote:

Or maybe we could send our condemned men and women on death row to be eaten as a form of execution.

I knew you would slip at some point or another.

So Mr "There must be Morals in this fictional world!"

Mr "All races should accept each other no matter the circumstances, even if they are from an alien world."

Mr "I don't believe in grey morality."

Seems to believe that that a slow, long, agonizing and painful death would be an ideal form of Capital punishment in Felarya?

You hyprocrite.

So it's fine for us humans encourage the predators to kill for our purposes, but for shame if predators do the very same thing using their own sense of morality?

I knew you would prove yourself to be a hyrocrite, and you have done just that.

Not that I would shame the humans in Felarya for doing such acts, it's just fiction after all. But you were the one who protested against simular acts done by the predators.

That is NOT what I meant. I am no hypocrite. I still believe in the morality and equality of races on Felarya. I am JUST saying that these pred are going to keep eating us with their altered morality. I have SEEN examples of this. Like Milly. What kind of predator has an amiable conversation with her prey before she eats him/her? And the death penalty. It's the source of much controversy on our planet, but the harsh fact is that some people just deserve to die. I'm sorry you feel this way, but you and I BOTH know there are some predators that fit into this category. That is the purpose of this thread. Also, I must be honest: I don't understand the concept of "gray morality".

Look, for the reason I gave earlier, I rescind that previous statement. Perhaps having people being eaten as punishment is... extreme. But as I said, I am no hypocrite. I try my hardest to stand by my beliefs in this matter. In the matters of this world, it is "Us against Them", and it SHOULDN'T BE! We need to stop this! We need to aid those humans in peril from the hands of Crisis! Milly! Jissy! And the endless hordes of predators that feed on us!

You know what the worst part about this is? These predators genuinely think of us as FOOD!!! That is wrong!!! And YOU, of all people, should know that!!!