Tinies' strength

I'm thinking of adding something for either tomthumbs or tinies in general. Giving them a greater strength comparatively to their size.
Not to the point of being able to beat down a neko or a human, but to better interact with their environment, being able to lift some weight, run faster etc.. In order to make them a little less defenseless.

What do you think ? ^^

I think its heavily needed. As far as i can tell, tinies are supposed to be humanoid in intellect, and yet, usually they are comedic cannon food. Of course you always have those sole tinies in stories that are really ingenious, but a little power boost might come in handy in general, such as ways to defend themselves against preds, especially in Negav, where there are lotsa tinies on a relatively close territory and yet we have that Tiny city within negav that, according to the (badly developed in my opinion) wiki entry, that puts that village Pelnepi to the level of a dining plate - and still tinies live there.

We never hear about magic users and stuff, and especially with magic, size should not matter at all. Also, there could still be technicians, with all the micro tools and the cheap avaiability of ressources ( a metal splinter can be forged into a sword, a simple needle for a human is already a small spear, etc.) tinies should be swimming in money and be able to spend it on more important things. After all, why should a tiny chirurg earn less money for more precise and better work than a human? And yet, he needs less food, less living space, less material for clothes, etc.
So Tinies SHOULD be equipped with top gear as long as they have a decent income, and be well protected with it. I can imagine them having highly dangerous enchanted artifacts in case they are "adventurers" or something like that, even to the point of them being skilled assassins. Also, you could have them have pet birds or other means to fly, after all, they are very lightweight. "Chameloine-cloaks" and stuff that hides them well should be a highly sought after item as well.

Oh, oh. I love tinies. I've been thinking up lots of stuff for tinies and their daily life in Negav, but I am a bit stuck on how Negav sees them. If you do add something, then I would personally add increased strength and agility compared to real life mice. Simply put: mice have the same kind of muscles that we do, but weigh only a fraction of our weight so they have a relative greater strength, speed, and jump height. Also, I would like to give them a history of taming and perhaps interacting with animals--though not literally speaking, as animals do not posses sapience.

For their position in Negav: My current theory is that the Negavian government is actually terrified of them. They are like vermin, with intelligence added on top. They moved into Negav without anyone noticing it, and can now theoretically get into any building carrying poisons and whatever magic they can get their hands on--like teleporting stolen goods out. Their number was ever increasing, as there is no old age or disease, and trying to coral them into Pelnepi did not work either--they are quite happy and safe living underground and within walls, so why move into the obvious deathtrap?

Thus, Negav hatched a brilliant plan. They gave tinies full rights as citizens, and promoted living in Pelnepi. There are dozens of jobs where a tinies' aid is invaluable, as they can work on a much finer scale then 'bigguns'. Artisancs, crafters, dentists, surgeons, unplugging pipes, etc. Not to mention street theater, delivering messages, massaging, etc. Pelnepi is presented as a bridge spanning cultures and species. However, in truth, the government is having its cake,and eating it too. The police turns a blind eye to eating and enslaving them, as this thins out their ranks. In response, some tinies set up an assassin's guild which tracks down the culprits and poisons them in retaliation. Most bigguns scoff at the idea of tinies crossing large distances, or getting their hands on poison, but some toys, chemicals, or just animals, are enough.

This made the populace once more aware of the danger that tinies presented, and so Negav raised its own tiny police force to combat this 'vigilantism', and right now there is an armed peace: tinies know that if they cause too much of a ruckus, a full exterminatus will be called onto them. In return, they give up on vengeance if the culprit is not caught within a certain time frame. Pelnepi is still safer than the city, but they are not allowed to raise defenses. On this last part, of why tinies actually bother living in Pelnepi, I'm still not entirely sure. After all, they do not need money. Maybe it's the law that the city always needs to be filled to capacity? Failure to comply will restart the bloody war between tinies and bigguns, so courageous families move there which brings great status to the relatives of these martyrs?

Ilceren wrote:

Well, there's but one flaw in your reasoning, Ama. Negavians distrust paper money and would always use coins or other things like gems to enact payment. The thing is, where does a tiny store all that money? I'm pretty sure that when things involve tinies, a different value system should be used altogether.


As for the original topic of the discussion, it seems like a good idea to me. In fact, it reminded me of a story about ZUN, creator of the Touhou series. It appears that he was once bitten by a mouse, and was surprised at how strong such a small creature could be, and thus was Nazrin born into the series.

The flaw lies within your lack of imagination, even in negav you have banks where people could store their money.
Imagine a rich tiny giving away cheques instead or paying a humansized person to take care of the billings and taxes.  i can imagine large people working for tinies to do jobs the small ones couldnt. Especially Taxi (Cab) services and transport in general.

Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, tinies could use some advantages (they do have to avoid superhuman predators like nekos! It's no contest if they can't even use the same laws of physics, eh).

On the other hand, letting them take advantage of the square cube law, making them exceptionally strong... will leave shrunken humans and fairies pretty much at the mercy of those pocket-sized herculoids.

Also upscaled tinies (because MAGIC!) will be as strong as Captain America- or find themselves weakened by the enlargement, which sounds pretty darn badass (FOOL! YOU CANNOT IMPROVE UPON PERFECTION!), but in practice might be just plain weird ("Gee, we shoulda cook up a way to macronize the tinies and recruit them for the Fist!" said nobody ever).

We've never even so much as paid lip service to the square-cube law... there ought to be a reason why it works for them but not for anyone else. Maybe they evolved to use the square-cube law and everything else evolved to ignore it lol. Though I'm usually against evolution in Felarya- I mean, that horse has a woman sticking out of its neck. Your argument is invalid.



As for munny, Pelnepi, and so on, I'm sure that tinies could figure that stuff out easily. If you want a specific system, then... I'd rather have the tinies in Pelnepi interface with the rest of Negav's tradesphere through a single store/trading company/whatever, and employ an internal currency of their own: they're not like the rest of the Negavians, so they might not mind systems such as banknotes and so.

As for assassins, that's pretty cool. Do they follow the creed?

I'd rather they had lookouts and alarms than assassins, since, y'now, that doesn't stop anyone from actually nomming 'em, while lookouts and alarms can be more effective at stopping a crime in progress (and find the criminal, too). I kinda assumed that neko thrill-seekers and slavers got their tinies from outside Pelnepi, rather than inside (except if working for a connoiseur who wants a tiny from Pelnepi for whatevs reason).

If Pelnepi were to train avengers, I'd rather they trained 'em for the tinies that are mistreated OUTSIDE their city-within-a-city.

Stabs wrote:

I'd rather they had lookouts and alarms than assassins, since, y'now, that doesn't stop anyone from actually nomming 'em, while lookouts and alarms can be more effective at stopping a crime in progress (and find the criminal, too). I kinda assumed that neko thrill-seekers and slavers got their tinies from outside Pelnepi, rather than inside (except if working for a connoiseur who wants a tiny from Pelnepi for whatevs reason).

If Pelnepi were to train avengers, I'd rather they trained 'em for the tinies that are mistreated OUTSIDE their city-within-a-city.

It would make perfect sense if Pelnepi was perfectly safe. The way I see it, either it's safe already--and the wiki should make it clear that there is NOT a steady source of food to be found there--or it is not allowed to be safe by degree of the government. After all, it's been there for decades if not years. By now they could have let some thorny shrubs grow to cover the city, or let their protectioner priests put up spells of bad luck so that no one manages to grab a tiny before...being so unlucky that they just happen to get ill right there and then.

Avengers? You could call them police then. A justice system. You commit murder? Slavery? Then they kill you. They could gather hairs from the scene of the crime, or use some divination spell on the victim's belongings, or eye witnesses, etc. and try to enforce justice. And this might have historically worked so well, that this caused Negav to lay down the law: no vigilantism allowed. Because naturally, neko's and slavers would have started to use anti-League of Tiny Assassins measures, resulting in a hidden war that threatened to destroy Negav from the inside.


Also, we should make it a rule that being inside a person's body makes it harder to find that poor little meal through divination.

I don't know about perfectly safe- I'd settle for "reasonably safe". How safe is reasonably safe, I'd say it depends- maybe the risk is concentrated in specific places and at specific times (Alleys after sundown :B), which is safe enough for most, but there's always a hardliner minority who thinks they're NOTHING BUT DEFENSELESS SHEEPLE and some places would be what amounts to perfectly safe (Sunday Mass in front of the local cardinal, for instance).

Scryangi wrote:

Because naturally,  neko's and slavers would have started to use anti-League of Tiny Assassins measures, resulting in a hidden war that threatened to destroy Negav from the inside.

After Tom was cursed by the Watchers of Pelnepi, he accidentally destroyed the city while trying to catch Jerry. Bad cat! Bad! No more vigilantism for you!

Stabs wrote:

After Tom was cursed by the Watchers of Pelnepi, he accidentally destroyed the city while trying to catch Jerry. Bad cat! Bad! No more vigilantism for you!

Now THAT is bad luck.

Stabs, there is quite the size difference between tinies and biguns. The reason that tinies are so widespread is because preds can not fit in tiny homes without breaking stuff and causing noise. I doubt that people in dark alleys have to fear being snuck up by a giant. If tinies were allowed to, then Pelnepi was 100% safe. Unlike humanoids, they are not in the jungle. They do not need to forage for food. They really can fortify their city with spells and traps, unless they are not allowed to by law.

Come to think of it: why are there even enough trees next to/ surrounding Pelnepi for a pred to hide in? So that the nobles can pretend to visit a fairy tale village in the middle of the woods? I guess I chalk up one more point for my conspiracy theory.

Tinies are 3" tall... maybe you're right, a 6' neko wouldn't be able to stick their arm down a narrow alleyway and see what they're doing. But the smaller the neko, the more terrible they become. In fact, I've heard of 1/8" nekos hiding under tiny beds, swallowing tomthumbs whole in their sleep.

Making Pelnepi 100% safe would require resources, not just elbow grease (though elbow grease can get you pretty close, even without resources). If Pelnepi has trouble trading with the rest of Negav, maybe they just haven't made it 100% safe yet, or there's occassional vandalism or... accidents, that while claiming no lives, do some damage to the defense infrastructure *pictures accident involving boobs and thick glasses. Nosebleeds ensue*. Then there's the issue of maintenance.

Also, conspiracies might work too. Some noble suspecting their friends like to go on long strolls eating people under the stars might just out of reflex oppose any funding towards what is "obviously a church issue!", and so on.

I don't really think tinies need any extraordinary powers. Nothing a little ingenuity and hard work can't fix! Sure there will be tinies that are magic adepts, or experts at maneuvering about.

Being so small does grant advantages, such as requiring much less potion to drink to be effective, able to slip through small spaces, avoiding the ire of all the giant predators for the most part.

I don't really think their size causes them to be defenseless, and I don't think a single neko could attack a tiny village in the wild without threat.

I remember a scene from "Night at Museum" movie, in which the main character got knocked down by tiny people made from sap. The main char was down with paralyzing/sleeping poison from darts by tiny American tribes. So poison is one way.

For lone neko attacking a tiny village, I can imagine she/he will have trouble with tomthumbs equipped with pointed and sharp makeshift weapon, such as needles, scissor blades, nails. If the tinies can attack from a certain height, they can shoot rubber band capapult, sharpened pencils at the predator. In worst case when out of weapons, they can jump on the predator, biting and gnawing, forcing the predators backdown. While the idea sounds laughable, try it yourself at an ant hill : p

My general opnion on Felaryan tinies is that they seem not very united and are often described as loners or helpless when facing bigger threats and often rely on other bigger people to protect themselves. They seem forgetting that their strength lies in number.

So to sum up everyone's opinions:

1) we all agree that tinies can be a true terror if they unite themselves.

2) while some increased physical ability is desired, they should not be able to outrun a human or fend off a neko. Still, at least enough to have them easily climb things without tools, and do some very cute things like running around with a potato.

3)there is little about what else they do asides from simply being there in the setting. So far, it's a race of background characters.

Scryangi wrote:

So to sum up everyone's opinions:

1) we all agree that tinies can be a true terror if they unite themselves.

2) while some increased physical ability is desired, they should not be able to outrun a human or fend off a neko. Still, at least enough to have them easily climb things without tools, and do some very cute things like running around with a potato.

3)there is little about what else they do asides from simply being there in the setting. So far, it's a race of background characters.

1) Yeah. A small village of them can empty your fridge with ease.

2) They certainly needs some enhancement:
-I believe they can outrun humans who are not used to catch them, especially children, at places that providing many shelters. But they will have trouble with nekos.
-They are agile climbers, especially house and tree tinies they often meet high places
-Ants can lift things that are a lot heavier than their own weight. I think tinies should be able too, but at lesser extend. An adult tiny should be able to run while carrying an apple.
-They are good at create makeshift tools and make use of what their surroundings offer. Nails, needles as weapon, rubber band for (risky) transports, parachutes with a piece of cloth. In some cases, they are good at taming some big-size animals, especially tiny tribe in the wilderness.

3) Unless they have protection from bigger people, I don't think they want to step out of the background. They don't look like people who want attention, especially when attention invites predators and dangers to them. However, I imagine there are still something that tinies can do in secret, like the scouting tiny bard to Lady Lersona in the manga.

I lived in the country side. I can personally vouch just how hard it is to catch a mouse, and got a scar on my hand where it bit me. Those things are super fast and a lot stronger than expected.

tkh1304 wrote:

3) Unless they have protection from bigger people, I don't think they want to step out of the background. They don't look like people who want attention, especially when attention invites predators and dangers to them. However, I imagine there are still something that tinies can do in secret, like the scouting tiny bard to Lady Lersona in the manga.

Oh, I totally agree with that, but that is not how it works in Negav. There they are pushed into the foreground by the people, both out of fear and for taxes. I can imagine that at first Pelnepi was presented as a place where tinies could step into the light and be seen as equals that have a rich culture. They probably know the animals better than anyone but druids. They can know plants better than people who do not live inside of them. And they have seen so many things, and were hidden so long, that they might have magic and medicine that we never even heard off.

I picture tinies standing on top of a tower in Pelnepi, talking to nobles and scientists. Or at least, that is what the tinies first thought before it became clear that Pelnepi is a trap. Or maybe they are just idealistic and that is why they stay there?

I imagine that tinies would blend in a noble party. A band of tiny musician, who play music with amplfying magic. Handsome smooth-talkers woo and entertain noble ladies. Or attention was cast on pairs of tiny dancers dancing beautifully on a table.

For knowledge, intelligence is more matter than size. I think tiny researchers would be quick-thinkers, actively run around back and forth a lot, and have bigger-sized assistants to help them with stuffs that they have trouble to do it by themselves like turning pages of a book, or try out the idea that they just think off. They would be bossy and grumpy tinies, but their achievements cannot be underestimated.

Outside, I think tinies can do activities to entertain people, such as mini-theaters. Instead of puppets, now real-life tomthumbs are the actors and actresses.

tkh1304 wrote:

I imagine that tinies would blend in a noble party. A band of tiny musician, who play music with amplfying magic. Handsome smooth-talkers woo and entertain noble ladies. Or attention was cast on pairs of tiny dancers dancing beautifully on a table.

For knowledge, intelligence is more matter than size. I think tiny researchers would be quick-thinkers, actively run around back and forth a lot, and have bigger-sized assistants to help them with stuffs that they have trouble to do it by themselves like turning pages of a book, or try out the idea that they just think off. They would be bossy and grumpy tinies, but their achievements cannot be underestimated.

Outside, I think tinies can do activities to entertain people, such as mini-theaters. Instead of puppets, now real-life tomthumbs are the actors and actresses.

This is how it could be. But this can only happen if they get rid of the stigma on their small size. As long as nobles can look at them and think 'snack or slave?', then they will just be a curiosity at best. And I am not just talking about noble nekos. Like autists in our world, a few brilliant ones will be lauded as geniuses, while all others are just second class citizens--easily exploited.

As long as tinies are not policed, then they are the fairies of Negav: you can't control them, but they can control everything. Right now they are kept in check because they are prey living among preds. Once they get status, and the armaments and rights related to it, then I can see them doing something like, banning all nekos from Negav or something. Bring the hammer of justice on any and all slavers. How will the corrupt nobility handle that?

*Edit* I am not saying that they could not be those artists that you described, but then they would be 'free'. They have little need for money so they would not do this for the high pay. If they did get a high pay, then you get super-tinies' culture again. It's hard to make them something between prey and pred, like a regular human. They are legion, and oppressed. Give them the means and a reason, and a cold war starts.

This reminds me of the film "The Secret World of Arrietty". Its about tiny people (also see the Littles. Love the near cat vore). But i think that they should be able to outrun a child or the inexperienced, but not outrun a hungry Neko or human. It would be interesting to see their own culture. I think it would likely be a smaller version of normal Negav culture.

http://movies.disney.com/the-secret-world-of-arrietty

An Idea I had just now that you might find interesting is a "Vore Date". Where two Neeras (or tinys) have an interest in vore and find a Neko (Or human) willing to eat and swallow them together, so they can be together in the end in the stomach.

Sounds romantic to me. What do you people think?

dragon808tr wrote:

This reminds me of the film "The Secret World of Arrietty". Its about tiny people (also see the Littles. Love the near cat vore). But i think that they should be able to outrun a child or the inexperienced, but not outrun a hungry Neko or human. It would be interesting to see their own culture. I think it would likely be a smaller version of normal Negav culture.

http://movies.disney.com/the-secret-world-of-arrietty

An Idea I had just now that you might find interesting is a "Vore Date". Where two Neeras (or tinys) have an interest in vore and find a Neko (Or human) willing to eat and swallow them together, so they can be together in the end in the stomach.

Sounds romantic to me. What do you people think?

Hey, that movie looks cute. It's stories like these that got me into shrinking in the first place. 'The secret life of gnomes', anyone?

I can see two tinies ready to die deciding to end it this way together. If they are just into vore, then add some Resistance to Acid potions, a Sustainance, and some way to escape the stomach afterwards.

Ps:For the first time in my life, I suddenly find myself thinking about sex in a stomach. How would that work?

@Scry. Glad you like it! I haven't seen it though. I mean to. I actually wish to shrink. Beacuse if you were only an inch tall, everything becomes and adventure!  

A vore date would be interesting. Imagine the devotion of a couple to play out the fantasy and spend the final moments together, hugging, kissing, or sex. Melting together (and being pooped out as one). I find it quite romantic.

EDIT: Im sorry about that. It shouldnt have been brought up. vv"

dragon808tr wrote:

An Idea I had just now that you might find interesting is a "Vore Date". Where two Neeras (or tinys) have an interest in vore and find a Neko (Or human) willing to eat and swallow them together, so they can be together in the end in the stomach.

Sounds romantic to me. What do you people think?

I can imagine a few odd little tinies fantasising about it as romantic… but I can't imagine them wanting to go through with it for real.

I enjoy writing about willing prey, but not in a Felaryan setting. It's too much of a mental disconnect; it requires its own separate settings, where suspension of disbelief can work more easily.

In Felarya, I'm probably the only person to have written a tomthumb character who has prey fantasies (Tan, of the Alsumi tribe). But he distinguishes very clearly between fantasy and reality.

Regarding Pelnepi: Remember that the tinies who live there are under the protection of humans who are genuinely devoted to their safety and well-being. The reason why a lot of tinies don't choose to live there is simply because they regard it as bureaucratic and restrictive, and prefer a broader freedom. And also, probably, because they instinctively prefer to remain discreet, out of sight of "giants".

Scryangi wrote:

Ps:For the first time in my life, I suddenly find myself thinking about sex in a stomach. How would that work?

Quite easily, I imagine. With the added bonus of hot sweltering intimacy, fleshy surroundings, and pitch darkness.

Well...

I in my Case have handled Tinies a bit different from the Beginning, it seems - for me they ARE fast and strong- because they have to be, otherwise they were gone extinct long ago. A simple Mouse can run and jump far more powerful than any Cat - compared to it´s Size. So it´s relative Strength is far greater.
And if a Mouse falls down from let´s say 5 Feet - it doesn´t care. And their Reflexes aren´t this bad either.
So in my Stories and RPs Tinies are as gifted as Humans - and given the Chance to be as big as a Human, they really could beat You down with Ease. Or outrun You. And You will not only find this Pelnepi - in my Stories there are a Lot more safe Havens like... Rooftowns in Houses of People they can trust. Or imagine a hollow Space between two Buildings, only reachable through a Gap of perhaps 20 cm? You know, how old Houses in old Cities are built? They often are a bit skew, odd-angled and... weird built. So there often are some Cavities and Gaps between them. And in the Wild... what is a simple Crack in a big Rock for us can guide them into a huge Cavern - or even into a Geode - with glowing Minerals.
Hidden secret Ways and Stuff not mentioned - they surely would be great Spies and Assassins (remember my Hints about Poisons and Stuff.)
They have all the Stuff normal People have - and why not? As I said in another Thread: Look around, what People usually throw away. So even getting some Metal is no Problem - because if they need some - it won´t be this much. So I think, Tinies are much like us - only smaller, faster and living in much more hidden Places - because they are small, not stupid. And Mages - ever heared of Balthazaar´s Sorceress Xin?
I love her - she´s super-cool!
And I think as a Tiny You have to be pretty opportunistic, adventurous, brave and curious - otherwise they won´t have spread this far and wide.

https://felarya.forumotion.com/t3146p15-do-tinies-have-guns

Hey Scry, you might be interested in my Tiny Guild idea from a while back. https://felarya.forumotion.com/t3312-tiny-guild-in-negav It takes some of the things you mentioned in the beginning. As for tiny strength, they could use a bit of a boost Karbo.

I wanted to clarify a little bit.
I'm not proposing to give them super-powers here ^^; A tiny would not be able to fight a neko or a human
Rather it's more a way for them to better interact with their environment.
For example if a small box is in the way, with that they would be able to carry it and put it aside. If it was translated in our size, that would be similar to be able to carry a large rock boulder ^^

I know. But they also would be able to simply just jump over it.