On magic

A basic theory of magic in Felarya, and it's general nature.

My general theory on magic, is that it is typically derived from either the alchemical elements(earth, air, fire, water, life, and variants of the above such as ice, or lava) or it can be of a mental or spiritual nature.

Elemental Magic

Elemental magic is based upon the traditional elements of alchemy. The behavior of a given variant of the magic, is somewhat consistent even across species. In other words, an Ice Naga will have similar capabilities to a giant ice worm(magically speaking). In other words the magic behaves the same, and affects things the same. The different species might have varying techniques, but the effects of the given type of magic are the same across the board(Ice from a Naga freezes, and so does Ice from a Ice worm).

The individual nature of the the different elements greatly influences how the specific type of element works as far as casting and controlling the magic.

Earth Magic

Magic based on the earth element, tends to be of the elemental magics the most powerful in raw terms. However, earth magic is also nearly impossible to control(it's nearly impossible to do something like summon spikes from the ground), and its effects are typically very gradual in nature, or passive. The strength of earth magic comes primarily in the form of passive effects on the being using it. These effects can grant the user greater strength, resilience, endurance, and the ability to physically turn parts or even the entire body into stone(although not without penalty, as parts turned to stone cannot flex). The other strength of earth magic, is because you are always near the earth(unless you are on a boat or something), it is exceptionally easy to draw on the on the earth. It should be noted that if a being is powerful enough, insanely powerful attacks can be done through earth quakes and the like, however it is impossible to direct the attack in a specific direction. Thus if a user can summon an earthquake, it will effect an area all around the user, as opposed to just focused at the opponent. For the majority of users however, earth magic is primarily based on the enhancement of the physical body.

Power(ability to affect a wide area): *****
Controllability: *
Offense: ***
Defense: ***

Fire Magic

Fire magic is based on the fire element, and tends to be very powerful offensively. The ability manipulate fire grants the user a host of different offensive attacks ranging from fireballs to flaming fists. It can also be used defensively to a limited degree defensively in the forms of smoke screens, and fire screens. Fire is notoriously difficult to control, but not to the degree that earth magic is, as it fire magic can be directed in a specific direction. It does lack precision however when used in this way. Fire really can't really be controlled well enough to act as a shield, so typically a fire user might cast fire in front or around them, in order to obstruct an opponent. Thus a fire user's approach is often, a good defense is a good offense.

Power: ****
Controllability: **
Offense: *****
Defense: *

Water Magic

Water is the weakest in terms of power(area of effect), but the greatest in terms of control. With water magic, it is very easy to get it to do very precise attacks. While it may not be the most effect in terms of destructive power, it offers a host of defensive options ranging from ice shields, to ice slicks, to walls of ice. The ability for such easy control over the magic means that the water user can most easily take advantage of mistakes done by an opponent. This combined with the ability to easily defend against most attacks makes water a potent element.

Power: *
Controlability: *****
Offense: **
Defnese: ****

Air Magic

Air is moderately powerful in that it can affect a relatively wide area. Air magic is highly controllable, and solid offensively. The strength of air comes froms its ability to impair the movement of an adversary, as well as enhance the speed and agility of the air user. This allows for the air user to strike repeatedly against an opponent while being able to evade attacks. For example an air user might summon a vortex to suspend an opponent in the air, thereby holding them in place. The weakness the air user has is that defensively, the only real benefit is in evasion. Air can't really provide much in the form of a shield, however speed can often make up for the limited defensive abilities.


Power: ***
Controlability: ****
Offense: ***
Defense: **

Life Magic

Life magic draws upon the strength of living organisms. This typically occurs in the form enhanced healing abilities, shape shifting, and poisons. This allows for the life user, to recover quickly after fights, vary shapes for different purposes, and to use poisons to inflict additional damage on the enemy. The limitation of life magic is primarily in the form of limited ranged effects. This leaves the life user vulnerable to opponents who can attack from a distance. However having the ability to shapeshift, allows for unmatched offensive and defensive versatility.

Power: ***
Controlability: ***
Offense: ***
Defense: ***


Mental and Spiritual Magic


Mental

Mental magic takes the form of psychic abilities. These can range from telekinesis, ESP, mind control, and enhanced memory. This allows for a mental magic user to be very effective offensively. However, the limitation is that typically only one opponent at a time can be targeted by mental attacks, and also that Mental magic users are defensively weak, due to the lack of physical protection. However the ability to create illusions, can counteract that weakness by making it harder for an opponent to accurately locate the mental magic user.

Power: *
Controlability: ****
Offense: *****
Defense:**

Spiritual

Spiritual magic takes the form of being able to appeal to either high powers, or be able to manipulate the internal spirit or soul of either the caster or an opponent. This gives spiritual users very great powers, although they are notoriously fickle. A spiritual master could be able to ressurect a dead organism, or possibly convince a latent god to lay the hammer of smiting on an opponent. However the primary advantage spiritual users have is in the ability to deal with opponents that are already dead, or ethereal which the other variants of magic have considerably more difficulty in handling. This same ability also makes spiritual users notoriously hard to kill as they have a way of constantly coming back to life.

Power: **
Controlability: *
Offense: *****
Defense: ****


These are just some ideas. I figure anything like Ice is kind of thrown into the "water" magic family, and things like "lightning" are thrown into the air family. So what do you guys think?

I think it would be better there: https://felarya.forumotion.com/ideas-discussion-f3/ And I'm already working on Elemental magic, my story is all about it. Though it will be more frequent at the third chapter.

hmmm very interesting indeed. However I think what makes Felarya the place that it is is that it seems to be unrestricted to one 'dogma' of magics or science. undoubtedly this will work for parts, but I don't think it can really be used as an end all description of Felaryan magics. especially with constant influx of new magics from countless worlds. there is mysticism in every nook and cranny and i think a lot of it would defy proper classification despite best efforts to that effect.

Cypress wrote:

hmmm very interesting indeed. However I think what makes Felarya the place that it is is that it seems to be unrestricted to one 'dogma' of magics or science. undoubtedly this will work for parts, but I don't think it can really be used as an end all description of Felaryan magics. especially with constant influx of new magics from countless worlds. there is mysticism in every nook and cranny and i think a lot of it would defy proper classification despite best efforts to that effect.

I share this point of view too

Edit: I add this point, none element is superior to the other it will depend on the level and the experience of the user.

Fire can win water
Wind can win fire
Water can win earth

But I think it can be usefut but not a necessity

Cypress wrote:

hmmm very interesting indeed. However I think what makes Felarya the place that it is is that it seems to be unrestricted to one 'dogma' of magics or science. undoubtedly this will work for parts, but I don't think it can really be used as an end all description of Felaryan magics. especially with constant influx of new magics from countless worlds. there is mysticism in every nook and cranny and i think a lot of it would defy proper classification despite best efforts to that effect.

Ditto. You can have one type of magic and another one of the same type, but they won't work the same way. When it comes to magic, nothing is absolute in Felarya, except the Guardians of course.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Ditto. You can have one type of magic and another one of the same type, but they won't work the same way. When it comes to magic, nothing is absolute in Felarya, except the Guradians of course.

You forget nothing limit someone to use many elements. It's the case of the humans

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

Ditto. You can have one type of magic and another one of the same type, but they won't work the same way. When it comes to magic, nothing is absolute in Felarya, except the Guradians of course.

You forget nothing limit someone to use many elements. It's the case of the humans

True. And as he pointed out, even at a disadvantage, an Element can beat it's opposite; it's more difficult, but with proper planning and experience, it's possible. You can have someone using nature beat Fire, someone with Lightning beat Earth, Someone with wind beat Fire and so on. If Fire would always lose to water, why even bother making them fight if we already know the outcome. In Felarya, almost nothing is impossible, the exception to this rule is what is left of logic.

To be frank, dividing it all into classic or semiclassic elements is prettymuch the surest way to kill my interest in magic.

I prefer to think of magic as a generic force, which can be applied in countless different ways. Elemental magic doesn't even make sense, when you think about it. The concept of the four elements isn't based on any sort of supernatural myth, it's nothing more or less than a LONG discredited way of dividing materials(a moist material was said to be composed partly of the water element, etc...).

Think of it this way. Earth magic is the manipulation of rock and stone. Sounds like a form of telekinesis to me. How is air/water/fire magic any different? You bond with the material, then move it.
I can see "Elemental Magic" as a single catch all group as logical, but dividing it into illogical elements like that is WAY To cliche for my blood, and tends to limit what you can do with it in the first place.

GREGOLE wrote:

To be frank, dividing it all into classic or semiclassic elements is prettymuch the surest way to kill my interest in magic.

I prefer to think of magic as a generic force, which can be applied in countless different ways. Elemental magic doesn't even make sense, when you think about it. The concept of the four elements isn't based on any sort of supernatural myth, it's nothing more or less than a LONG discredited way of dividing materials(a moist material was said to be composed partly of the water element, etc...).

Think of it this way. Earth magic is the manipulation of rock and stone. Sounds like a form of telekinesis to me. How is air/water/fire magic any different? You bond with the material, then move it.
I can see "Elemental Magic" as a single catch all group as logical, but dividing it into illogical elements like that is WAY To cliche for my blood, and tends to limit what you can do with it in the first place.

You got a better idea? Elemental magic refers to any kind of magic that deals with a particular material. As a whole, you're right that you simply bond with it then move it, we classify them to simply refers to WHICH material you are moving. It's for specification purpose, they basically all work the same. For me, you could have toxic element, fog element, acid element, whatever. They all work the same, they got a specific name to distinguish which material you are bonding with.

Quote :

You got a better idea? Elemental magic refers to any kind of magic that deals with a particular material. As a whole, you're right that you simply bond with it then move it, we classify them to simply refers to WHICH material you are moving. It's for specification purpose, they basically all work the same. For me, you could have toxic element, fog element, acid element, whatever. They all work the same, they got a specific name to distinguish which material you are bonding with.

Precisely. Problem is, all these different elemental magics are getting WAY too much emphasis. It's all the same magic, with minor differences.
Where's the focus on dimensional magics? Animation? Transmutation? Biological manipulation? Gravitational energies? ESP?
At this point, I find just about all of those magics to be far more interesting than the stale realm of elementalism.

Look, he chose to talk about one type of magic. If you want to talk about another type of magic, make your own thread instead of bashing this one.

GREGOLE wrote:

Precisely. Problem is, all these different elemental magics are getting WAY too much emphasis. It's all the same magic, with minor differences.
Where's the focus on dimensional magics? Animation? Transmutation? Biological manipulation? Gravitational energies? ESP?
At this point, I find just about all of those magics to be far more interesting than the stale realm of elementalism.

Wait a minute for the transmutation, the origin it comes from the concept of the four element fire/water/air/earth and a unknow fifth in alchemy.

The concept of the elements before to be used in heroic fantasy was a concept to explain the creation of the life and the origin of susbtance.

The elemental magic is the first and the most basic magic, the others are developped from them

About the Magics: I agree for the most part that, while a good system, it doesn't really classify any differences within magic. I could magically cover you with Green Fire, and I'll assure you it'd be a helluva lot less deadly then magically covering you with White Fire. Something "resistant" to orange fire might be capable of being burnt by Blue flames.

That is just one school's example, also.

Quote :

Wait a minute for the transmutation, the origin it comes from the concept of the four element fire/water/air/earth and a unknow fifth in alchemy.

The concept of the elements before to be used in heroic fantasy was a concept to explain the creation of the life and the origin of susbtance.

The elemental magic is the first and the most basic magic, the others are developped from them

That's not how it works, I don't think.

Elemental magic is nothing more or less than manipulating a particular "element"(a misnomer in this day and age).

Other magics have nothing to do with it. Knowing how to shoot fireballs out your ears won't help you learn to open dimensional gateways.

Quote :

Look, he chose to talk about one type of magic. If you want to talk about another type of magic, make your own thread instead of bashing this one.

First of all, I'm not bashing it. I'm stating my thoughts.
Believe me, you haven't seen me bash something, and if all goes well, you never will.

Second of all, this thread is acting as though elemental magic is some greater representation of how magic in general works. I don't care for that, which is kinda the point I'm making here.

GREGOLE wrote:

That's not how it works, I don't think.

Elemental magic is nothing more or less than manipulating a particular "element"(a misnomer in this day and age).

Other magics have nothing to do with it. Knowing how to shoot fireballs out your ears won't help you learn to open dimensional gateways.

I answer you

If you think elemental magic it's just throw fireball, you' re wrong. There is an infinite possibility to exploit something in general we use fire in different way, to warn your body, to cook and to kill, to move faster, fireworks and many other things.

I'm not agree with you because you don't know all the possibilities offer the elemental magic,as you say is question of knowledge.

If you learn to shoot fireball you will shoot fireball but if you developp your learn more you will see there is other possibilities.

Quote :

I answer you

There is an infinite possibility to exploit something in general we use fire in different way, to warn your body, to cook and to kill, to move faster, fireworks and many other things.

I'm not agree with you because you don't know all the possibilities offer the elemental magic,as you say is question of knowledge.

If you learn to shoot fireball you will shoot fireball but if you developp your learn more you will see there is other possibilities.

At no point did I ever state that there is nothing you can do with fire magic but throw fireballs.

There are a thousand different things you could do with fire magic, but opening a dimensional gateway is most assuredly not one of them.

Quote :

If you think elemental magic it's just throw fireball, you' re wrong.

I'm never wrong. XP

GREGOLE wrote:

At no point did I ever state that there is nothing you can do with fire magic but throw fireballs.

There are a thousand different things you could do with fire magic, but opening a dimensional gateway is most assuredly not one of them.

If a fire mage developp skill and items based on the fire magic to open a portal he will, because there is many ways to get a results =D

All our technology and knowlegde we developp have the same common base, our two hands. Do you think if we use our hands in a same and only way do you really think we were here to debate about that

nothing is created nothing is lost All it can be transformed.

When you say something is impossible it's just because you don't know or see the solution

Quote :

If a fire mage developp skill and items based on the fire magic to open a portal he will, because there is many ways to get a results =D

All our technology and knowlegde we developp have the same common base, our two hands. Do you think if we use our hands in a same and only way do you really think we were here to debate about that

nothing is created nothing is lost All it can be transformed.

When you say something is impossible it's just because you don't know or see the solution

You can't use a wrench to build a kite. You can have a wrench present while building a kite, but the wrench itself will offer no assistance.

In order to open a portal, one would require, besides basic knowledge of how to do it, to bounce particles off of one another at extreme speeds and in a VERY particular manner. Control over heat and fire would be useless in such a situation. Control over kinetic energy, not to mention the ability to actually sense what you're doing would be neceserry.

A fire mage CAN learn to open dimensional gateways, but not through fire magic. He would have to turn to an entirely different school.
Fire magic can not be used to open a dimensional gateway, just like a jug of motor oil can't be used to nurse a wounded animal back to health.

GREGOLE wrote:

You can't use a wrench to build a kite. You can have a wrench present while building a kite, but the wrench itself will offer no assistance.

In order to open a portal, one would require, besides basic knowledge of how to do it, to bounce particles off of one another at extreme speeds and in a VERY particular manner. Control over heat and fire would be useless in such a situation. Control over kinetic energy, not to mention the ability to actually sense what you're doing would be neceserry.

A fire mage CAN learn to open dimensional gateways, but not through fire magic. He would have to turn to an entirely different school.
Fire magic can not be used to open a dimensional gateway, just like a jug of motor oil can't be used to nurse a wounded animal back to health.

It depend on how you use the oil.

You can use the oil to set up a fire and warn some food to feed the beast yes

With a simple knife, you can feed you, kill or heal someone, it's a question of knowledge and skills.

You know it's possible to create a motor oil from sugar cane.

You can belive it's possible or not but I reapeat if there is an artefact wich use the fire magic, because fire and heat are energies when there is an important uses of energy there is aways a creation of heat.

Knowledges evolve, it's true a fire mage needs a different knowledge but not necessary to change his school of magic. In clear if the mage finds and create the way to evolve his school of magic he can.

We know to use fire in different way and developp many knowledge don't state something is impossible because you learn it's impossible. Because the science you know is not perfect because the people who developp theories don't know everything and theories can be refuted


You know what the reason why there is different school of art and different science is the same. There is an infinite possibilities and knowledge to learn, each school of art and science are create to study one knowledge and to developp it. But nothing is said you can not learn the knowledge from another science or school of art to developp your own knowledge. The common point to the mage and the scientist they both do research and experience.

As I say it will depend of the experience and the knowledge of the character.

Edit:

Quote :

In order to open a portal, one would require, besides basic knowledge of how to do it, to bounce particles off of one another at extreme speeds and in a VERY particular manner.

Any move generate heat

So when you will do that you need to control this magic if you fail you create a big explosion

My intent, was more or less to give a general characterization to the common types of magic that seem to show up all the time.

For example, a big part of my view of magic is its inherent controllability. The easier to control something is, the more nuanced things one can do. However, that control comes at a price, in the form of the raw power of a given ability. I envision it being kind of analagous to using a sniper rifle versus, a bomb. I could just as easily kill someone with each, but I can't really control the effects of a bomb, like I can control the bullet from the rifle. It doesn't mean that one is inherently better, it just means that they might be good or bad at different things.

The idea behind my thoughts with say the "fire" element, is more about the general behavior of fire, and what the element tends to be predisposed towards. I envsion it as a form of magic that is extremely powerful offensively, but one that leaves a caster vulnerable do to its chaotic and uncontrollable nature. In other words, rather than weilding a scalpel with precision, you're wielding a baseball bat. You can in general lay down a lot of punishment over a wide area, but controlling exactly where the flames will go, is almost impossible. While I envision water magic to be the opposite(ok, so I'm an engineering student in a fluid mechanics cours:P) . Fluids tend to behave predictably, and that means that what they lack in raw power, they make up for in finesse. Flames lack predictability but can do more damage over a bigger area.

The idea I had wasn't to try to pigeon hole magic types, but to kind of put forth the idea that different types of magic might have certain limitations or drawbacks. Obviously a master of a given school will be able to do things out of the ordinary, but I was trying to come up with something that might kind of give a sense of continuity between different stories. I wasn't shooting to create a magic system.

I was thinking more along the lines of "what if?". Suppose I'm a mage, and I specialize in using Air Magic. My opponent is using fire. I know that my disadvantage is that he can lay a lot of pain over a big area, but that his drawback is that he can't easily defend himself from attacks. So what I do is keep on the offense, and not let the fire user press the attack, since that's where he's got me outgunned. I use my advantages of speed, to close the distance so that he can't use his magic without harming himself(that's another thing I feel should be noted, is that just because I'm a fire user, doesn't mean that I'm immune to my own magic).

Having magic that is truly limitless in what it can do, I think detracts from it being a compelling story element. Think of it like this. Who is the more compelling hero? Superman or Batman? I take batman because he kicks ass, and his only superpower is being rich. Superman on the other hand I can't get into, simply because he's like a demi-god. Nothing can hurt him(save for kryptonite), and it makes him less interesting. I respect batman as a character because he has to deal with limitations all of the time, yet finds a way. His enemies have guns? He has to make sure they don't see him, so he uses stealth to get close enough to engage the bad guys thereby negating the advantage of having a gun.

If you allow for magic to truly be limitless in what it can do, then I think the risk of falling into the superman trap is inevitable.

I just wanted to make my point a little clearer, since I think some folks didn't quite get what I was going for.

Well this is an interesting subject to raise and you made nice descriptions of differents elements as you see them

I actually just created a magic section on the wiki but I am not sure yet what will be in. Like Gregole I feel categorizing it too much may seem a bit pointless in a world such as Felarya, where lot of people would come and use their ownt type of magic from their home world ^^
( ohh just thought of an appropriate type of magic for Felaryan native : vore magic )

There is an infinite possibility to use something so there is no special school of magic which superior to another.

In Felarya you can learn all the magic you want but if this magic don't help you to survive when you meet a predator, this knowledge is pointless

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

There is an infinite possibility to use something so there is no special school of magic which superior to another.

In Felarya you can learn all the magic you want but if this magic don't help you to survive when you meet a predator, this knowledge is pointless

Which is where psionics come in.

Predator: "Oh boy food!"
Psion: "Oh boy mindrape time!"

Malahite wrote:

Which is where psionics come in.

Predator: "Oh boy food!"
Psion: "Oh boy mindrape time!"

I don't know if it will work but don't underestimate the mental powers of a starving predator

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I don't know if it will work but don't underestimate the mental powers of a starving predator

By the same note, never underestimate a desperate Psyker.

Thick skin doesn't help when your mind is directly being assaulted. Even with the strongest mind, you just need enough power to stun a predator long enough for you to attempt escape.