Spectrum of energy (magical or otherwise)

Mickilla wrote:

Why do we age? Because our cells have a limited number of telomeres, and when we run out they cease to be able to make perfect copies of themselves when they perform the process of mitosis.

That's not the only reason. Other things such as free radicals take their toll as well. However, I do believe you hit on the biggest reason. Perhaps repetitive regeneration of telomeres is the reason Felaryan soil prevents aging. I think it could come down to my concept (well, it's not mine, per se) of "life-energy". The large amount of ambient life-energy (perhaps produced by bacteria in the soil, or other types of organisms?) could prevent aging by stimulating the body to produce telomerase, increased absorption/production of certain vitamins (for instance, many rodents naturally produce Vitamin C), faster cellular production and repair, and, of course, heightened immune systems.

The problem is this: if it supercharges you, why don't the pathogens also increase in power and balance it all out? Well, maybe one could assume only multi-cellular organisms can create/absorb the energy. In fact, why not go further? Maybe only creatures with sophisticated nervous systems and brains can.

Sorry, I'm a big psionics guy, a real advocate of the whole "brainpower" thing. It comes from living as a physically-challenged bookworm all of one's life...

I'm thinking out loud here, but I wonder…wouldn’t the soil cause most of Felarya to become a place of some evolutionary stagnation? If the soil basically super charges your cells to the point where you’re immune to disease and aging that should slow the natural evolutionary process. Since the body, while in Felarya, can instantly adapt to all types of diseases to the point of immunity, cease aging, and heal very quickly without needing to improve itself naturally.

Could be, if all organisms there were relieved of the burden of a limited immune system then yes, there would be some species that would avoid extinction that they might face elsewhere. However, other bizarre phenomena that occur in Felarya could more than compensate and force evolution to continue because of competition from other species, or forced adaptation to its unique environment. Plus, on top of everything, it would seem that all sorts of new creatures spring up from other universes. With so many new species all seeing one another for the first time, there would be plenty of room for adaptation because the ecosystem is in flux.

Another thing to consider is whether or not having every organism's immune system being given this boost will force pathogenic viruses and bacteria to become bigger and meaner as well. Pathogens seem to have a nasty habit of multiplying so fast that in a matter of days their strain can change entirely, and sometimes become much more deadly. One of the reasons that AIDS is difficult to treat is because HIV can actually adapt to resist medications fast enough to overcome the dosages. If it is a boosted immune system that keeps inhabitants of Felarya disease free, then yes it would be inevitable that at some point the germs would catch up. However if it were something different, perhaps nothing more than a strong regenerative ability that can fix the damage caused by the disease, but without doing anything else to combat it, that could present the possibility that the germs would simply continue to multiply, but without needing to change.

Mickilla wrote:

However if it were something different, perhaps nothing more than a strong regenerative ability that can fix the damage caused by the disease, but without doing anything else to combat it, that could present the possibility that the germs would simply continue to multiply, but without needing to change.

If you don't cure from the disease first before to regenrate your body you won't live longer due to the fact the disease exhaust the body if the body try to regenerate it will get more exhausted. In clear it's a better way to die faster.

It's important to have an immune system or you can't recover from injuries and disease
Indeed this boost will force pathogenic viruses and bacteria to become bigger and meaner as well but I think there is other ways to cure from disease too.

Quote :

If it is a boosted immune system that keeps inhabitants of Felarya disease free, then yes it would be inevitable that at some point the germs would catch up.

Don't forget many inhabitants of Felarya possess healing skills like Temi
I think the healing ability of the soil is not the only way to cure from disease in Felarya

Don't forget that there are alternative solutions to the "Bacterial Problem" in Felarya if we include more than just the physical world. If we assume that every creature has a "life force", that when two conflicting life forces "fight" the bigger one tends to win, and Felarya's soil boosts one's life force then it naturally follows that bacteria cannot infect larger organisms with much success, as they simply can't overpower the hosts life force and destroy the hosts cells.

There are of course downsides to introducing "life force" (plus it's kind of a cop out, similar to saying "A wizard did it!"). ^^;

It could be abused in that way. However, I think it's indeed possible to use the life-force idea intelligently and in true quasi-scientific fashion.

Well, my idea didn't include "conflicting" life-forces, really... I think that's quite different from what I suggested. My idea was basically just the equivalent of a chemical/neurological signal (except as a form of ambient energy) that would stimulate bodily processes. Perhaps it boosts physical capabilities by increasing the production of adrenaline and other similar hormones. It's all theory, really. Less than theory, since it's not real. Not even speculation, ah?

There's one thing I'd like to point out right off the bat, in regards to what Zion said about necromancy. Something you forgot to mention was the variety of undead (primarily zombies) that are animated by a genetic force rather than a magical one, like those seen in most modern-set survival/horror games. I know it wouldn't apply to Felarya, since it's primarily a disease (on that note, does that mean the secret behind Felarya's miracle soil is possibly a large mass of holy energy far below the surface? o_0) that re-activates lower brain functionality, although there is undoubtedly some form of death-alligned magic at work even if it was created through scientific means. Otherwise it wouldn't be affected by magic of the opposite affinity.

Now I've just thought of an interesting thing, so I'll mention that as well. Another branch of "necromancy" is the manipulation of bodies through magical energy, but not the actual reanimation, something one of my own characters specializes in. Because it's essentially using the corpses as puppets, it needn't necessarily be fueled by death magic, would it? For example, and I know it's not using the same system, but still, Faustus from Shaman King simply spread his mana throughout his skeletons to make them move, but didn't even give them the base instincts that zombies raised by conventional necromancers have. So... I guess what I'm asking is this; would this sort of puppetry be considered true necromancy as well?

Now, maybe because I'm still in highschool myself, I'm not too clear on all the specifics of a "spectrum," and I think what I'm suggesting may go against some of the theories on "dimensions" (I'm typing this at the same time as reading through, and I've only just started the second page at this point... Oh, on that note, it seems like someone beat me to the punch with connecting life magic in the soil to the weakening of necromancy)

*insert break here*
I just read Silent_eric's post about mages from other worlds with different laws governing magic, and I'm not sure I completely agree. I think they would retain some of the more absolutes from where they came from. More on that will be coming in a bit.

Anyway, back to the whole spectrum thing, something that was touched upon but not expressly discussed was the concepts of existence and nonexistence, or aether and void respectively, as they're called in my universe. Because our world, and that of Felarya, are ones of existence, they are comprised primarily of aether, from which both matter and mana spring. It's been mentioned in the Wiki that several creatures live in a negative dimension, though they need to get sustenance from the real and thus feed in Felarya, and I'd say that they're living in a world of nonexistence. Although they're more base than such affinities as life magic or time magic (which, to the extent of my knowledge, are all products solely of aether) void and aether exist (or don't exist, as the case may be*) within a similar range, and even though mages and the like may be able to tape into it via sorcery and manipulate it slightly, we are unable to fully perceive it in our active concious.

*Because we are beings of aether, although we can only subconciously interact with aether, it is even more difficult for us to do so with void. Not only does the world reject such a concept, or lack thereof, our brains simply aren't capable of comprehending such a force.

It'd help if you guys were familiar with the world of Type-Moon, because the following, being either canon to it or designed to fit it, are good examples of what I'm talking about. Gilgamesh is capable of sundering reality and bringing forth void, but only because he has an immensely powerful Noble Phantasm that's specifically Anti-World, and can sustain such an incredible movement of mana all at once. Also, one of my characters has a Reality Marble that allows him to create his own world, one in which he can choose how much of its makeup is real and how much is unreal, although it does have a limit to the amount of void it can sustain before collapsing in on itself. It doesn't take much mana to sustain the Marble; the primary cost comes from the forced expanding of his mind's range of conceptualization.

One more quick note on that character of mine; he's a aethermancer, which is just what it sounds like. Remember how I said we can't actively engage reality itself? The thing with aethermancers is they're not aware of whater they're doing. In his case, he casts spells he's seen in video games (Meteor ftw!) and like media, and that's all he thinks he's doing. If he were to discover that in doing this he's manipulating the fabric of existence to replicate the desired effect, his mind would try to tap into this actively, and thus would essentially be frying itself.

Aaaaanyway, back to what I said about foreign mages. Here's why I think what I think; because they came from another existence, which although also made of aether (probably), is of a slightly different variety than Felarya, this means that they are also comprised of such. So even though different rules would apply to native Felaryans, their minds recreate things exactly as they are in their own world when casting magic. Of course there are still some limitations, since the world won't allow complete unbalancing of its own existence, but since Felarya's so unstable, these restrictions are much looser than they'd be somewhere else.

As some of you may have guessed, since aether and void are fundamental concepts in my world, so too is that of absolution, or chaos. It's neither real nor unreal, but is what aether and void both were before separating from one another. It's also all that there was at the beginning of time. Contrary to what seems to be the popular idea, in my world it's not what will be left over at the end of time, if there ever is such a point. Because aether and void are continually drawing farther and farther apart, there's no way they'd ever re-join, so what will be left is something that we're not even equipped to comprehend, either conciously or subconciously (That's mostly just my excuse for not having an idea of what it will be, but it makes for a plausible arguement, I think).

Oh, and back to that character and his Reality Marble, if any of the void he has called forth comes into contact with the aether composting the person trapped in the world with him, both will begin to unravel into a swirling lump of chaos, which will continue to deteriorate any existence occupying the same space. So far, that reality marble is the only way to reunite aether and void.

Well, um, that's about it. I know these almost entirely my own applications of the concepts, but I feel they're points that are valid and should be taken into consideration when discussing such a thing as "real" magic. What do you guys think?

I think I may have some explanations of how magic would work in Felarya, but I'm not sure if everyone will agree. Anyway, here's how I think it works while looking at your ideas:

First, there's is magical energy flowing everywhere in the world. For the sake of simplicity, we'll call it Aether, as I never understood that thing well and I think it fits well here. Aether is present in every worlds, though it may be richer or poorer depending on the world itself. Furthermore, it's affected by the laws of the world, AKA the Laws of Physics. A person native from a world may be affected differently by the physics in another world. Since Felarya is a crossroad between dimensions, we can pretty much assume it's the center of the omniverse. Every forms of Aether and Physics are found there, explaining why it's so magic rich and why virtually any living being can live there as long as they aren't eaten.

Along with Aether, another energy found in every living beings allows to channel it. We call it Mana. Depending on presence of Aether in a given world, living beings may be more apt to use mana to channel Aether than others. Worlds rich in Aether will be more magic oriented, while those poor in Aether will be more science oriented.

Mana is also relative to each individuals. Some may be more skilled at channeling Aether with their mana than others, while others may have a greater innate mana capacity. One thing that holds true is that mana will become stronger as the creature becomes stronger itself. While Aether is infinite in every single worlds, how rich it is might be explained by comparing to a membrane. Since this energy is like an omnipresent membrane covering the whole planet, how rich it is depends on how thick the membrane is. Assuming it is edible and has one water molecule in every cells, there will be more conglomerated water molecules if the membrane is thicker.In some worlds were Aether is very thin, living beings possess less mana, not enough to channel Aether for the most basic of all basic spells.

On to spell casting; Aether in its raw form is useless to cast spells. A magician or spellcaster is someone specialized in the art of channeling ambient Aether with its mana, and "refines" it in order to cast a spell. The process is bonding with Aether using a certain amount of mana, effectively merging the two energies before releasing it, which is the actual casting. Channeling Aether can be easy for some, and harder for others. It's difficult describing the channeling process; for easy spells, it seems as natural as breathing, while for harder spells, the caster is often seen in a trance. The higher the difficulty for casting a spell, the more Aether you must channel, thus the more mana you'll spend. There's one catch with mana: it must never be totally emptied at once. Doing so can result in severe exhaustion, serious diseases, backfires, disability, and in the worst case, death. In other words, casting a spell that would cost more than 10% of your maximum mana capacity is risky. The odds of side-effects and its severness increases as the percentage increases. Using 100% or more of your total capacity will almost always results in death. It's possible to survive, but it's rare, and chances are high you'll be permanently affected.

The way Aether is "refined" with mana is relative to the type of spell cast, but they all have one "technique" in common, with variations depending on what exactly do you cast. There are many types of magic, such as Dimensional Magic, Elemental Magic, Support Magic, Curses (or status ailments of RPG fans), Kinetism (psychokinetism not included), Cloaking Magic, Detection Magic, Rituals, and many, many more. All of these "branches" of magic have their own "sub-branches" which keeps splitting until you reach the actual spell.

An exemple: Dimensional Magic -> Space -> Matter Relocation -> Active -> Teleportation
Second Exemple: Dimensional Magic -> Time -> Travel -> Passive -> Forward
Third Exemple: Support Magic -> Healing -> Disease -> Active -> Poison
Fourth Exemple: Support Magic -> Protection -> Passive -> Magic Armor
Fifth Exemple: Elemental Magic -> Weather -> Lightnig -> Passive -> Thunderstorm

The last part of spell casting is the caster's personal touch. In order for the spell to have the desired effect, you must think of the desired effect as your mana is still part of yourself before casting. The actual spell is always either an Active spell, or a Passive spell. An Active spell is when it immediatly take effects, most are usually one shot like a fireball. Passive on the other hand is when it doesn't immediatly take effect, or its effect lingers over time. The major difference between Active and Passive is that Active affects directly, while Passive is indirectly. Some spells can be in both categories, but will have different effect. The Magic Armor for exemple; Active it nullifies one attack and immediatly fades off thereafter or after a few seconds. While active, it acts like a shield has been raised and blocked the attack completely. Passive, it stays activated and weakens incoming blows as long as it can take punishment. While passive, it acts as a body armor that reduces harm.

If the caster is skilled enough, he can imbue the Aether/Mana combination in any part of his body, or anything that is already in contact with his body. Someone with a crossbow, if skilled enough, can imbue is arrow to slow down the one struck as long as it's not fatal.

Necromancy is a peculiar Ritual type of magic, it needs Aether/Mana, but just that is not enough. It actually needs to implent a special microorganism that can rewrite the genetic code of the undead to reanimate it when using it for reanimation. When dealing with reanimation, it doesn't uses Aether, but Void. As Aether is Matter, Void is Anti-Matter. Living beings are made of matters, dead beings no longer need it. In Felarya, the soil is saturated with Aether, AKA Living Matter, rendering undead reanimation impossible. However, the saturated Aether of the soil can't enter in contact with a being animated by Void already. In short, reanimating an undead in Felarya is impossible due to the being being already saturated in Aether, while an undead stumbling in Felarya won't die as its body is already saturated with Void. However, Necromancy can instead uses undeads, but not reanimating them. They can simply build an undead golem body, waiting for host soul, or be used as a puppet.

This is my explanation of magic here. It may not be accepted by everyone, but at least that's how I see it working.

Sean Okotami wrote:

a lot of stuff here

that actually makes sense. i would believe it

Alright, I forgot to explain some ambiguities, so here goes again:

Some spells are ambiguous, they seems to fit in two categories at once. Common exemples are Elemental Spells VS Kinetism and the "Haste, Slow, Stop" spells.

The difference between elemental magic and kinetism is that elemental magic is the act of generating something, while kinetism is controlling it. An exemple using fire magic VS pyrokinetism. You have two unlit candles and two mages. One uses fire magic, the other uses pyrokinetism. They must light up their candle using only their magic. The fire mage can do that no problem, but the pyrokinetic can't. Why? Because there are no flames he can control. (both mages are in a separate room) The gist is that fire magic is the art of creating fire, while pyrokinetism is the art of manipulating existing flames. Here, there is no existing flames he can control. Another thing is that fire magic can only control flames created by the caster, while pyrokinetism in any flame at all as long as he isn't overpowered. Let's do the same exemple in reverse. Both mages are presented with a candle that was already lit by a ligther, they must extinguish the flame using magic only. In case of the fire mage, he can't do it because he didn't create the flame, while the pyrokinetic can extinguish any flame at all as long as he is powerful enough. Speaking of elements, Water and Ice are often debated. So is Light and Fire. Water and Ice are actually different, so is Light and Fire. The correct term for Fire and Ice should be Heat and Cold respectively. Creating a flame in its hand is simply making the air around the hand so hot, it catches fire. Same with creating icicles, you simply drops the temperature around your hand until icicles forms.

For the "Haste, Slow, Stop" trio, they are debated with either they are Dimensional Magic, or Support Magic. They are both, but it doesn't work the same way. Haste for exemple, using Dimensional Magic, you simply accelerate the flow of time, while using Support Magic, you simply makes the body react faster. Same with the others, Slow Dimensional is slowing down the flow of time, while Slow Support is making someone react slower. Stop Dimensional you stop time entirely, while Stop Support you stop the body from reacting. There are a few more ambiguities, but it can be cleared up if you know how the spell work.

I believe a person with Pyrokinesis can actually create and control fire with his or her mind.

Daimo wrote:

I believe a person with Pyrokinesis can actually create and control fire with his or her mind.

Kinetism means moving, but most fire mages learns how to create flames and control any flames anyway. Also, don't confuse kinetism with psionism which are totally unrelated, this brings me to my next point:

Psionism is often confused with magic. The huge difference is that psionism or psychokinetism deals with the mind alone, no Aether or Mana are mixed. Humans and many living beings only uses 10% of their brains, psionics are those who uses more. The first 10% is sentience, the remaining is abilities with the mind, like telepathy, psychokinesis, psychic blasts, whatever dealing with the mind is NOT magic. Any human in theory are capable of such, but very few are capable of using over 10% of their brain.

Ah, then you must mean Kineticism since Kinetism isn't a word. (Trying not to sound like an ass.)

According to wikipedia, kineticism isn't a word either, the real word is Kinetic apparently.

Pssh, It's wikipedia. <_< Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled topic.

There is no real difference between a Pyrokinesis and a fire mage, they both control fire but in a difference ways.
Compare this two things is like to compare a Vanilla and chocolate it's a question of taste
None of them are really superior to another, the only difference will be the experience and the knowledge of the both users.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

There is no real difference between a Pyrokinesis and a fire mage, they both control fire but in a difference ways.
Compare this two things is like to compare a Vanilla and chocolate it's a question of taste
None of them are really superior to another, the only difference will be the experience and the knowledge of the both users.

Well, a fire mage that has common sense will learn both pyromancy and pyrokinesis. But its only pyrokinesis litteral meaning, controlling flame. My revamped OC can generate flames, but can't control raw flames yet. Basically, at school of fire magic, you learn how to generate flames, and how to control any flames. It's like an ice cream cone, it can be eaten raw, but you'll almost always put ice cream in it. Pyromancy and Pyrokinesis compliments each other beautifully, you can't master one without mastering the other.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Pyromancy and Pyrokinesis compliments each other beautifully, you can't master one without mastering the other.

Well, you can but just being able to create fire and not control it makes you pretty useless until someone needs to set a campfire. Or light a cig.

Silent_eric wrote:

Well, you can but just being able to create fire and not control it makes you pretty useless until someone needs to set a campfire. Or light a cig.

You know when you see what people can do with a lighter you won't say that

((Gonna take a stab at this))

If Felarya exists possibly in an alternate dimension and is already unstable to being with, would true magic even be that much of an oddity? In our dimension we follow the laws of physics and we recognize them as true. In a location such as Felarya, one could expect numerous oddities in dimensional structure holding it together. True magic could then exist. Of course, we recognize the term "magic" as being something that science can not explain through experimentation in our dimension. Miracles and such also fall into this category.

Another interesting point to consider would be on perception. Humans have only five senses. How we perceive the world is based solely on these. Faith in religion such as creationism and similar thoughts also serve to alter perspective of our world. If for example, you compared how an average individual and someone who was blind perceived the world, you would get radically different answers. Maybe, there are other senses we are not aware of. Many species of animals can detect the presence of approaching catastrophe such as hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, or volcanic eruptions. This has baffled scientists for ages and it can not, thus far, be explained outside of theory. Another fine example would be that we do not perceive time, but we notice its effects and base our belief in the existence of time on that.

So the question now is, considering the above, could the existence of magical and elemental powers along with the ability to harness them be so unbelievable? Maybe detecting magic is a sixth sense and the ability to use it a long forgotten, or not yet evolved muscle action. Or perhaps, as other posts have suggested, it is another law of nature. Considering Felarya's unstable nature and frequent connections to alternate universes and realities, there is a possibility that a number of theories could all be true in Felarya.