HELL... AND HEAVEN!

Forgive the all-caps in the title, couldn't resist making the reference. Anyways, I've been thinking a lot about Heaven, Hell, Angels, and Demons lately, and I decided to share some of the ideas I've been using in my writings.

I'm interested in providing some definition to the cosmology of Felarya, without pinning everything down to an absolute rule. And like Karbo said:

Karbo wrote:

In my vision, Heaven and Hell are not really the.. mhh how to say that in english... "sacred" place they are thought to be, but rather worlds with strange rules ( collecting the souls of the deads ) but where you can travel to without being dead yourself if you know the right portal.

My intention is to seperate the concepts of (Felarya) Heaven and Hell from the metaphysical aspects of religion, to a certain degree, while still maintaining their flavor. So here it is... Edit: Warning, as you might expect, this is going to be long.

Heaven and Hell, at least the versions Felaryans are familiar with, are realms that exist within the same universal array as Felarya. While each has its own unique properties, they are somewhat similiar because of their relationship to one another; not only do the realms sit in diametric opposition (with Felarya "between" them), but they each have a unique polarity of sorts.

While it is convenient to describe "Heaven" as being a "higher plane" or "above" Felarya, and Hell as being "lower" or "below", for all intents and purposes they actually exist side by side with Felarya. Both Heaven and Hell are arranged in layers, also called "levels" or "circles" (more on those later). Note that Heaven is not "The Heaven" and Hell is not "The Hell"; one will find neither the God of All Creation in Heaven, nor Satan residing in Hell.

Instead, Heaven is a realm comprised of "positive" energy, inhabited by beings that exist in a sort of quantum state, halfway between energy and matter. Likewise, Hell is a realm of "negative" energy, where the dominant lifeforms are quantum beings comprised of negative energy/matter. This species of positive beings are called Angels, while the species of negative beings are called Demons.

One of the more interesting properties of Heaven and Hell (and the beings residing there) is that they resonate on the exact same frequency as the souls of humanoid beings. In both Heaven and Hell, a soul is a physical object, one that Angels and Demons can easily see and touch; and even outside of their respective realms, an Angel or Demon can perceive the soul within a creature and interact with it, although with greater difficulty. (As a sidenote for Zoekin, this explains how Menyssan was able to see and recognize Tanya's soul hiding inside of Sonya. )

This resonance leads to some fairly interesting effects; because both Heaven and Hell are physical realms, it is possible to travel there physically via dimensional magic. Use of such magic effectively "translates" a human or other being into a quantum state, much like the one the residents of that realm exist in. However, it is also possible to travel to Heaven or Hell by other means, such as Astral Projection. This can be incredibly dangerous, because the inhabitants of these realms are capable of perceiving and interacting with astral constructs the same way they can with souls. Many people exploring Hell astrally have found themselves captured by a demonic creature, and few of them have returned.

The resonance also leads to a strange fascination with souls on the parts of both Angels and Demons. In fact, they model large parts of their societies after mortal cultures and mythologies, which is why the realms of Heaven and Hell are so familiar to people from different cultures. Angels and Demons "collect" the souls of the dead (it could even be called stealing) and bring them to their native realms. The primary reason for this is due to their fascination with mortal cultures, but also because when mortal souls resonate in a particular fashion, they give off energy that is very pleasant to Angels and Demons, and contributes to the overall stability of their realms.

For example, Heaven is composed of positive energy; Angels therefore collect the souls of "good" people, which they find pleasant to be around. In Heaven, a person is free to pursue their interests and do whatever they enjoy; this sense of satisfaction radiates throughout the realm, and provides a form of sustenance for Angels. In Hell, it's the opposite; Demons are more interested in "evil" people, and often torment "damned" souls to bask in the energy given off by their suffering, which is very pleasant and calming to them. This energy provides all the "food" they need; however, some Demons develop a taste for eating the souls of the "damned", which they find both nutrious and delicious. ^_^

In general, one will not find "good" people in Hell, or "evil" people in Heaven; Demons have very little interest in true innocents, unless it's to corrupt them as a hobby. Likewise, Angels have no interest in souls overflowing with negative emotions- souls strongly aligned with either end of the morality scale will always find their way to the "right" realm, unless there is some external factor preventing it. Conflict sometimes does arise when "borderline" cases are involved, however- souls that straddle the line are fair game, and skirmishes and even wars between Demons and Angels have arisen over famous souls that are too close to the middle to call.

Because they style themselves after elements from mortal cultures, it is possible to find a wide variety of familiar places and personalities in both Heaven and Hell; there is a Valhalla in Heaven, for example. In fact, you can even meet "Thor" there; however, it is not the actual Norse God Thor, but a powerful warrior angel who styles himself after the mythlogical figure. Hell is full of demons, both minor and major, who take on the roles of gods of the Underworld and Darkness. The most powerful of them carve out niches among the nobility of Hell, and create their own subregions that they rule over... beneath the watchful eyes of the true rulers of Hell, of course. Sometimes, a demon pretending to be a "Dark God" is destroyed, and another demon will take the identity for themselves; this can lead to some fierce rivalries, when inheriting a cult of worship. There have been several Hecates, for example, leading to much infighting both in Hell and among sects of mortal followers.

The positive energy of Heaven is typically referred to as "Holy", while the negative energies of Hell are "Unholy". It is possible to draw on either of these energies to power magic, but they interact with one another in an extremely volatile manner. Because they are aligned in an opposing manner, as a general rule "Holy" energy will weaken a Demon, and "Unholy" energy will weaken an Angel. However, there are numerous factors involved, including the relative strength of the spell vs. the power of the Demon or Angel. The weakest angelic and demonic entities are vulnerable to strong curses and blessings, respectively; however, to injure an Archangel or Archduke of Hell would require a tremendous amount of Unholy or Holy energy. Not only are such beings capable of resisting the effects of the opposite energy, but they can even overwhelm it with their own Holy/Unholy aura.

Also, because they are a source of such energies themselves, the most powerful Angels and Demons can be used as a source of power by the magic of their followers. In effect, higher-level Angels and Demons can grant the prayers of, and bestow blessings or spells upon their followers. Thaumaturgy-based magic often relies heavily upon contracts with angelic or demonic creatures, but is very risky; those who deal with Holy or Unholy beings often find themselves being altered to suit that entity's purposes.

Angels and Demons are not capable of existing in physical realms in the same state they exist in their own realm; upon travelling to Felarya, for example, a Demon has to actually change quantum states to be able to maintain a presence in that realm. This takes a great deal of energy, and is a constant drain on the Angel or Demon; they are not naturally part of Felarya's plane of existence, and the world rejects their presence. This is why Angels and Demons often only come to Felarya for limited periods of time; it is difficult for them to maintain a physical presence there, the same way it is difficult for a human to keep a muscle tensed for very long periods of time. "Banishing" an Angel or Demon is basically a matter of making it too difficult for them to maintain a physical form, which results in them being ejected back to their natural realm.

As a general rule, the more powerful the demon and/or the more efficient it is with its energy, the longer it will be able to remain on a physical plane. The very weakest of angelic and demonic creatures are capable of physically manifesting only for a few seconds at a time (Shoulder Angels and Devils fall into this category); this time can sometimes be extended if they attach themselves to a mortal soul and siphon energy from it. In addition, some Demons and Angels are capable of possession, entering a mortal creature and temporarily fusing themselves to its spirit or soul. In this manner, they can escape the constant pressure the physical realm applies to send them back home; an Angel or Demon who possesses a creature can effectively remain on that plane until they are exorcised or banished, or the host manages to rid themselves of the influence.

Angels and Demons are typically very difficult to destroy; under normal circumstances, they can not be destroyed on a physical plane of existence. There are some exceptions, but for most purposes, the demon you see on Felarya is not the "real" creature, but instead merely a physical manifestation of it. Destroying a demon or angel's body on Felarya will disperse it and return it to its native realm. Some demons or angels have special circumstances under which they can be permanently destroyed, even in a physical realm, but they typically guard these secrets jealously. Many demon hunters find themselves "destroying" a particular demonic enemy several times, before they manage to find out the secret to the creature's true destruction; a demon "killed" in the normal fashion may still return to the physical plane after it recovers from the experience and gathers enough power.

If you really want to kill an angel or demon, the surest way to do so is in Heaven or Hell; but venturing into these realms to do battle with the entity is extremely dangerous, as they have homefield advantage. In addition, Archangels, Archdukes, and royalty of Hell have nearly god-like power in their native realms. Becoming a ruler of a circle of Hell yields tremendous powers while in that realm, which is why so many Demons try to climb to the top of the hierarchy.

Someone who rules a Hell plane may even be able to change the laws of the plane to their whims; challenging Queen Faldhatée in Erebus or Queen Arsinoë in Acheron is typically a huge mistake. It is where they are most powerful, and unless you have an entire army or epic levels of power at your disposal, you just aren't going to stand much of a chance. They are more likely to find the challenge amusing or hardly notice it at all than to take it seriously; Queen Faldhatée has been known to continue tending her garden while would-be attackers spontaneously explode. Many conflicts in hell involve a lot of politicking, backstabbing, and trying to make yourself look better while making your rivals look bad. Trading favors is a common practice, and only those who have built a massive power base even dare to challenge one of the rulers; this process usually takes millennia, although some "rising stars" have been known to shoot towards the top of Hell's hierarchy in mere centuries. Unfortunately, you can fall just as quickly as you rise, and when you're on the top everybody wants to drag you down.

In contrast, Heaven is much more orderly and less cutthroat than Hell; however, Heaven has its share of mavericks as well. In addition, there are some angels who are downright ruthless, particularly among the Guardian Angel and Avenging Angel classes. Overall, Angels are a single species, much like Demons are the species of which Succubi are a subspecies. Although individual angelic subspecies exist, the distinction is fairly meaningless among Angels themselves. Angels have a class-based hierarchy, split up into orders that they belong to. It is possible for an Angel to transition from one order to another, but for the most part, once they get into the class they prefer they stick with it.

The highest order of Angels are Archangels; Archangels rule over Heaven, and are the equivalent of Queens and Archdukes in Hell. Even the youngest Archangel is thousands of years old, and extremely powerful. Archangels tend to have particular personalities and specialties, and some of them model themselves after the "familiar" Archangels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel). Only the most powerful and determined Angel will be able to become an Archangel; but oddly enough, it is not the goal of every Angel the way most Demons aim to become an Archduke/Queen.

Below the Archangels are the greater angelic orders, which include Principalities, Thrones, Seraphim, Ophanim, and Erelim. Beneath them are the "lesser" angelic orders like Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Malakhim, Cherubim, and Elohim. These are ranks and associations, rather than angelic subspecies; for example, an avenging angel who is an Ophan could be a species of Fire Angel, or any other angelic sub-species. They are more like guilds or organizations, and they tend to have their own goals, internal leadership, and rules. (Note: Feel free to make up your own angelic orders, or define these; I haven't really come up with anything for them aside from the names. )

Under normal circumstances, a Demon will never become an Angel, and vice versa; it can happen under extremely rare circumstances involving special factors... however, it is not simply a matter of an Angel "doing evil deeds". Angels and Demons are completely different species. They can undergo an unusual process called "Inversion", however... this rarely occurs, but involves the creature's energy becoming reversed. In effect, an Angel who becomes an Unholy being or a Demon who becomes a Holy being.

Angels who have inverted are said to have "Fallen" (and actually called The Fallen or Fallen Angels), while Demons who have inverted are said to have "Ascended". Fallen Angels and Ascended Demons tend to lead fairly harsh lives; due to their intrinsic properties having changed, they are no longer capable of living among their own kind, in their native realms. And they are not exactly made welcome in their new homes; Angels mistrust Ascended Demons and treat them coldly, while "badly" does not begin to describe the way Fallen Angels are treated in Hell. Fallen Angels literally have to fight for survival every moment of their lives, until they prove themselves powerful enough that most demons leave them alone.

As a result, Fallen Angels tend to be loners, and not very nice beings. Most of them manage to survive by developing a reputation for excessive vengeance; messing with one of the Fallen often leads to retribution far beyond the offense being meted out. Curiously, given their status as outcasts in Hell, Fallen Angels do not associate much with their own kind as one might expect them to. They tend to be extremely solitary individuals, and avoid socializing with others when at all possible; it's rumored that one of the circles of Hell is ruled over by a Fallen Angel, who no one has even seen (let alone spoken to) since the Tenebrous War... just as an example of how reclusive they can be.

It's worth repeating that Fallen Angels are not Demons, and Ascended Demons are not Angels; magical effects that specifically target Angels will not work on an Ascended Demon, nor will a circle of protection against Demons stop a Fallen Angel. However, effects that work specifically against Unholy or Holy creatures will have the appropriate effect on them. Summoning a Fallen Angel has been the last act of many careless mages, who failed to make that important distinction.

It is also possible, by uncertain and unnatural means, for a Angelic/Demonic hybrid to be created. These creatures are called Nephilim, and they are far beyond rare. The exact number of these creatures is unknown, as they typically learn to do a very good job of concealing their true nature from others. Nephilim are creatures that should not exist, and as such, neither Demons nor Angels accept their presence (as always, there are some exceptions, but they are few and far between). There are no general species-wide traits common among Nephilim; each of them is a unique creature, and they can occur in any form or level of sentience.

The only thing that can be said to be universally true regarding them is that they are typically very disorderly beings, constantly torn between their conflicting Angelic and Demonic natures. In addition, they often have strange properties and powers, which can sometimes be passed on to their descendants (Nephilim are capable of breeding with both Angels and Demons). Be warned: Anti-Angel and Anti-Demon wards have no effect whatsoever on a full-blooded Nephilim. Angels or Demons with suspected Nephilim blood are often treated as outcasts much in the same way the Fallen and Ascended are.

Finally, both Heaven and Hell have beings that act as psychopomps; these are low-ranking Angels and Demons who act as "guides" to bring souls to their respective realm. They are often the "working class" of Heaven and Hell, and they do much of the hard work that keep their realms populated with souls. Occasionally, these beings come into conflict with one another over a particular soul while "on the job", but typically, there are mutually agreed upon rules that define which side a particular soul belongs to, and who is sent to collect it. These beings are the Angels of Death, Shinigami, Valkyrie, etc. sort of beings, and take various forms depending on the culture of the person they've come to collect. (Have fun making up your own orders of psychopomps; it will be interesting to see what sort of cultural entities exist on Felarya )

I like this explantation, it's very neutral and allow many possibilities

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I like this explantation, it's very neutral and allow many possibilities

*nod* That was exactly what I was going for. It's not strictly religion-based, but it doesn't really rule out any possibilities.

May I have your opinion about the type of angel I try to developp in this thread https://felarya.forumotion.com/angels-and-succubi-f11/cleansing-angel-t657.htm
Maybe you can help me to flesh them a bit more

I have one issue: You said an angel or demon can only spend limited time on a mortal plain. Yet Zoekin's angels Markie and Krista actually contradict such rule, Krista in particular.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I have one issue: You said an angel or demon can only spend limited time on a mortal plain. Yet Zoekin's angels Markie and Krista actually contradict such rule, Krista in particular.

It's not an issue because the time limit can be long or short depending of the case, the rank or the job

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

I have one issue: You said an angel or demon can only spend limited time on a mortal plain. Yet Zoekin's angels Markie and Krista actually contradict such rule, Krista in particular.

It's not an issue because the time limit can be long or short depending of the case, the rank or the job

But, you Krista's is absurdly long. Given her rank and power, she couldn't stay for this long on a physical plain. Markie I understand, but not Krista.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

This takes a great deal of energy, and is a constant drain on the Angel or Demon…

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

As a general rule, the more powerful the demon and/or the more efficient it is with its energy, the longer it will be able to remain on a physical plane.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

…this time can sometimes be extended if they attach themselves to a mortal soul and siphon energy from it.

Relevant parts underlined for emphasis. I thought it was clear that there are some exceptions; maybe I'll have to go back and reword it. Anyways, it's possible even for a relatively weak angel or demon to be able to stay in Felarya longer than another demon of their same power level might be able to; it's more a matter of how efficient they are with their energy reserves, and whether or not they are able to replenish them while on the planet. If Menyssan can eat enough people to keep her energy levels up, she'll be able to remain in Felarya longer despite the strain.

Eventually, however, an angel or demon will return to Heaven or Hell, unless there's some factor preventing them from doing so. Such as if they're trapped in a circle of binding, or they have a magical item that allows them to remain on a physical plane semi-permanently. Does that explain it better?

What about a shrunken avenging angel whose supposed to watch over two person, but share no bounds with them whatsoever, and actually hate them? I prefer to see an angel or demon in Felarya like an avatar in physical form, in the same fashion as Negative Hydras.

Sean Okotami wrote:

What about a shrunken avenging angel whose supposed to watch over two person, but share no bounds with them whatsoever, and actually hate them?

Um, okay... what about it? I don't see how that would be a problem. Maybe I'm missing something?

Sean Okotami wrote:

I prefer to see an angel or demon in Felarya like an avatar in physical form, in the same fashion as Negative Hydras.

I dislike the avatar concept applied to the average angel or demon, because it creates certain problems. And having to work out every one of those problems just makes the idea much more complicated than it needs to be. For instance, if a demon is only physically present in Felarya as an avatar, anything it eats would only be inside of that avatar, and not the demon itself.

So, you have to make up some rule about prey that a demon's avatar eats being transported to Hell once the avatar disperses, which is needlessly complex. In addition, the avatar of a demon is not the same thing as a demon itself, which is an important distinction when dealing with some forms of magic.

My concept is much more functional, without ruling out the possibility of demon avatars. It's likely that there are some powerful demons who can create avatars of themselves and send them to other realms, but that would be more of an individual power rather than a trait common among demons. For all intents and purposes (under my scheme), the demon is actually physically there; however, the entirety of its being is not all on Felarya. This is why it is so difficult to destroy a demon that is not in its native realm; because you are not destroying the entire creature, only part of it.

Edit: To elaborate, the reason I dislike the avatar concept being applied to common creatures is because in all but the "highest" High Fantasy, creating an avatar represents a significant investment of time, effort, and power on a being's part. In Role-playing games (like Dungeons and Dragons), it is typically an ability reserved for Greater Deities and their equivalents, and not even all of them can do it.

There are very few Lesser and Minor Gods with the ability, and usually once an avatar has been destroyed, it takes hundreds or even thousands of years before a greater god can create another one. The idea that some schlub angel or demon, like Agnashrak, can create an avatar every time he wants to swing by Felarya verges on the wildly improbable. Among the elite of Heaven or Hell (excluding Archangels/Archdukes/Queens), there's probably only a handful of higher-ranked beings in each realm with the ability to make avatars. Lower-ranking angels/demons with the ability probably wouldn't stay low-ranked for long, unless there's some bizarre circumstances involved.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

May I have your opinion about the type of angel I try to developp in this thread https://felarya.forumotion.com/angels-and-succubi-f11/cleansing-angel-t657.htm
Maybe you can help me to flesh them a bit more

Whoops, missed that. Sure, I'll take a look at it and get back to you.

Again an excellent and very detailled explanation !
Indeed you did very well in not mixing religions in

Only point that worked a bit less in my opinion was on the restraint demons or angels have when coming in other worlds. In the case of Felarya, there has been many case of these beings staying for very long without problems or being specially powerful. Maybe a special link allow them to blend better in Felarya I don't know ^_^

Karbo wrote:

Again an excellent and very detailled explanation !
Indeed you did very well in not mixing religions in

Thank you.

Karbo wrote:

Only point that worked a bit less in my opinion was on the restraint demons or angels have when coming in other worlds. In the case of Felarya, there has been many case of these beings staying for very long without problems or being specially powerful. Maybe a special link allow them to blend better in Felarya I don't know ^_^

Well, there's a few reasons I worked that in. Primarily because otherwise, there's very little reason one wouldn't be tripping over Succubi all the time on Felarya. Plus, I tried to leave it open enough that there are dozens of possible methods demons and angels could use to extend their stay in Felarya; possession is merely one of them.

For instance, when angels are given specific missions that require them to travel to a physical realm, it's likely that the order they belong to would set up some kind of link to transfer enough energy across the planes so that they could maintain their presence there. For anything beyond merely being there, they have to use their own personal power reserves (so in a fight they're limited to their natural power level), but they don't have to worry about the "Felarya Energy Tax" because their Order is "footing the bill". This is where those Bureaucrat Angels come in: "Wait, you need HOW much Holy energy channelled to you?"

Demons would likely set up some similiar arrangement or contingency as well; whether it's storing up energy in crystals to use as "batteries" while on Felarya (or another world); having energy channelled to them from a friend, ally, or servant; or even drawing it directly from the realm they rule (for high-ranking nobles, Archdukes, and Queens). A big part of the economy in Hell might even be trading in favors and magical items for the purpose of stable existence in a non-Hell realm. Can you imagine how valuable a ring that allows a Demon or Angel to stay in Felarya permanently would be?

Like I said, there's a reason I thought that bit up; it might not seem like it, but it actually opens up more possibilities than it shuts down.

I think what Karbo meant is that the magic rich environment of Felarya basically gives angels and demons apparition a virtually constant and unlimited suplly of energy, thus allowing them to stay on indefenitely. The wiki also states that the same environment allows summons to stay indefinetly on Felarya.

Also, I'm not really fond of having Hell being made of negative energy while Heaven is made of positive energy. We've been RP'ing about negative mortal dimensions like the Negative Hydra. And if Hell is made of only negative energy, that's the only place the sould of a being of a negative dimension would go after death. And the reverse for Heaven.

I see more Hell and Heaven as made of neutral energy to accomodate for both creatures of positive and negative dimension. And if they go up or down would be based on how heavy their sins weighs against their conscience. Just tossing my two cents here.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think what Karbo meant is that the magic rich environment of Felarya basically gives angels and demons apparition a virtually constant and unlimited suplly of energy, thus allowing them to stay on indefenitely. The wiki also states that the same environment allows summons to stay indefinetly on Felarya.

Also, I'm not really fond of having Hell being made of negative energy while Heaven is made of positive energy. We've been RP'ing about negative mortal dimensions like the Negative Hydra. And if Hell is made of only negative energy, that's the only place the sould of a being of a negative dimension would go after death. And the reverse for Heaven.

I see more Hell and Heaven as made of neutral energy to accomodate for both creatures of positive and negative dimension. And if they go up or down would be based on how heavy their sins weighs against their conscience. Just tossing my two cents here.

You confuse positive and negative to good and evil, creature made of negative energy is not necessary evil and a creature made of positive energy is not necessary good.

Heaven and Hell are shown as two polarities but they don't define and another it doesn't have been state Heaven or Hell are the one positive or negative dimension.
A negative Hydra can come from another dimension than hell

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think what Karbo meant is that the magic rich environment of Felarya basically gives angels and demons apparition a virtually constant and unlimited suplly of energy, thus allowing them to stay on indefenitely. The wiki also states that the same environment allows summons to stay indefinetly on Felarya.

That works for summons mainly because summoned beasts only care about mana, in the form of raw magical energy. It would be a different matter for creatures who are from realms dependant on a particular form of energy to survive. If there was no sunlight at all on Felarya, a creature that could only survive in direct sunlight is not going to care that the world is overflowing with magical energy; that fact is just not relevant in the case.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Also, I'm not really fond of having Hell being made of negative energy while Heaven is made of positive energy.

Okay, fair enough; you're entitled to your opinion.

Sean Okotami wrote:

We've been RP'ing about negative mortal dimensions like the Negative Hydra.

Okay... Please point to where I said that "Hell is a negative mortal dimension" or "Hell is the only negative dimension"? I don't think I did, but if I did I'll have to change it, because I never meant to imply that in any way.

Sean Okotami wrote:

And if Hell is made of only negative energy, that's the only place the sould of a being of a negative dimension would go after death. And the reverse for Heaven.

Incorrect. I believe this is a case of you thinking I'm saying something that I'm not. My intention is to define Hell as a negative energy plane, and Heaven as a positive energy plane. Neither is the only negative/positive energy plane in existence. This Hell and Heaven are also not the only place souls of negative/positive beings go after death. In fact, souls don't "go" there after death at all, because these are not the actual metaphysical "Heaven of God" and "Hell of Lucifer".

They are planes or semi-physical realms with rules of their own, which are inhabited by species of beings that call themselves Angels and Demons. They are also populated by the souls of the dead, but not because it's the afterlife that they automatically pass on to after they die. Souls wind up in Heaven or Hell because Angels or Demons take them there. It has nothing to do with Final Judgement, or mortal sins weighing down on you, or your beliefs; if you're an evil person and a low-level demon: 1) likes your style and 2) manages to get ahold of your soul, or "steal" it while it's in transit to the "real" afterlife... then you wind up in this "Hell". Likewise for Heaven. That's where the psychopomps/spirit guides/shinigami/angels of death come in, they're basically the collection department.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I see more Hell and Heaven as made of neutral energy to accomodate for both creatures of positive and negative dimension. And if they go up or down would be based on how heavy their sins weighs against their conscience. Just tossing my two cents here.

The problem with that is that it's more of a metaphysical/classical version of Hell and Heaven. Which is something many people here wanted to avoid. In the version I posted, your conscience doesn't really have anything to do with it; the only reason Hell is full of evil people is because Demons "like the vibe". They admire vices and negative attributes; this isn't to say that there aren't noble Demons in Hell, but their concept of honor is likely to take a much different tack than an Angel's. There are poets, artists, and musicians in Hell; and there are great conquerors, warriors, and generals in Heaven.

Someone who does terrible things is not a "good" person, even if they do them with a clean conscience; their actions and life have been tarnished by negative deeds, and Angels just wouldn't be interested in someone like that. Likewise, someone who is as pure as the driven snow would be pretty darn boring to a Demon; "Vice is the Spice of Life", after all- unless the Demon has a hobby of corrupting innocents, there's just no point in bothering with someone like that.

That's the way I was looking at it when I worked all of this up, anyways.

Well-I feel humbled.
Really mind-blowing stuff! I love it.
I really enjoyed reading this and I don't have a thing to add.

Except-

Krista is or rather was fairly high ranked. Her continued existence in Flearya was arranged through special means. In short-she's being punished. I can't say more without spoiling future storylines except to say Markie and Krista may NOT be as they seem.

Zoekin wrote:

Well-I feel humbled.
Really mind-blowing stuff! I love it.
I really enjoyed reading this and I don't have a thing to add.

Except-

Krista is or rather was fairly high ranked. Her continued existence in Flearya was arranged through special means. In short-she's being punished. I can't say more without spoiling future storylines except to say Markie and Krista may NOT be as they seem.

Same with Terror. According to this, it's only a physical manifestation of her that came in Felarya according to what Quantum said, which I don't think is what Moony intended with her.

Zoekin wrote:

Well-I feel humbled.
Really mind-blowing stuff! I love it.
I really enjoyed reading this and I don't have a thing to add.

Except-

Krista is or rather was fairly high ranked. Her continued existence in Flearya was arranged through special means. In short-she's being punished. I can't say more without spoiling future storylines except to say Markie and Krista may NOT be as they seem.

Thanks for the explanation

Quote :

Same with Terror. According to this, it's only a physical manifestation of her that came in Felarya according to what Quantum said, which I don't think is what Moony intended with her.

Not necessary Terror can be in Felarya for another reason.

The huge ass paragraphs says demons can't appear in person in any mortal plane.